# Why is a convicted felon rifling through America's computer files? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 27, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250 "2002-11-27T23:50:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/1 "2002-11-27T23:50:52Z")
> [@](#): > > **A massive database that the government will use to monitor every purchase made by every American citizen is a necessary tool in the war on terror, the Pentagon said Wednesday.** This is the lead to this [Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,70992,00.html) story. The Pentagon is setting up a massive Big Brother style data base to keep tabs on anything and everything Americans do on line. The person heading up this McCartyesque endeavor is none other than Iran-Contra villain, John Poindexter. > [@](#): > > _From the Fox News story_ > > Poindexter was convicted on five counts of misleading Congress and making false statements during the Iran-Contra investigation. So why, in God’s name are we appointing a five time felon and liar to head up a program which treads so close to violating Americans’ right to privacy and due process? What’s next? are we going to hire G. Gordon Liddy for homeland security? How about Oliver North as Drug Czar? Jesus, the program is a bad enough PR sale as it is, why put a criminal in charge of it? Do YOU trust Uncle Poindexter with this kind of power? I sure as hell don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/2 "2002-11-28T00:29:21Z")
And what is your reaction to the news that this information is already available to industry? ---
**Author:** ![Skid\_Row](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@Skid\_Row](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skid_Row)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/3 "2002-11-28T00:44:21Z")
Poindexter (what a FANTASTIC handle he’s been hung with, huh?) is about as qualified for this position as O. J. Simpson and Pee Wee Herman. Isn’t it amazing that, in this post-9/11 nation, the greatest threat to our freedom and our nation’s future comes from our president, our ruling party and our attorney general. Who’s the real terrorist? Scared yet? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/4 "2002-11-28T00:52:03Z")
It would be a database of ALL company databases. No single company currently has the TOTALITY of access that this government program would have. Even some conservatives such as Bob Barr, Dick Armey and [William Safire](http://www.naplesnews.com/02/11/perspective/d859436a.htm) have expressed grave concerns about it. But the point of my OP was about the wisdom of selecting a proven criminal and liar to head up the program. Why should Poindexter even be put in charge of folding the napkins in the Pentagon cafeteria, much less a program as sensitive as this one? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/5 "2002-11-28T00:56:35Z")
And I take it the fact that his convictions were overturned on appeal carries no weight with you? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/6 "2002-11-28T01:05:37Z")
> [@](#): > > And I take it the fact that his convictions were overturned on appeal carries no weight with you? None whatsoever. Poindexter’s convictions were overturned only because he had been given immunity in return for testimony. The actual FACTS of his crimes were not in dispute. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/7 "2002-11-28T01:17:44Z")
Well, the thing is, **Diogenes** , that your usual tactics of inflammatory posting and intellectually dishonest summaries and conclusions combine to create a situation in which I squirm uneasily whenever I happen to agree with you on an issue. I’m not wild about the idea of this database. Nor do I hold Admiral Pointdexter in particularly high regard. He did lie under oath, and that’s a despicable thing to do; certainly it should keep him from any future government jobs. As you correctly point out, the fact that he was given immunity from criminal prosecution doesn’t change the fact that he lied. I’m sure he thought his reasons for lying were good. But for very good reason, we can’t permit an individual in his position to make that call. He could have, in my view, kept his honor by refusing to testify, rather than by choosing to lie. So I agree that the database is a bad idea, and that even if it were a good idea, he is a terrible choice to lead the project. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/8 "2002-11-28T01:22:44Z")
Wow, **Bricker** , we agree. For the record, I tend to keep my inflammatory and intellectually dishonests posts to the pit. I try to be slightly more thoughtful in GD. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/9 "2002-11-28T01:23:45Z")
That should have been a ;), not a 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/10 "2002-11-28T05:55:18Z")
No, I don’t feel safer knowing that a man of Poindexter’s staggering genius, professional expertise, and contempt has been tapped for this position. From: [http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/](http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/) (bolding mine) > [@](#): > > Oliver North’s destruction of records in October and November 1986 caused an irretrievable loss of information to the executive agencies responsible for regulating clandestine activities, to Congress, and to Independent Counsel.\*\* John Poindexter’s efforts to destroy NSC electronic mail nearly resulted in comparable damage\*\* > > \ > > Poindexter along with North and others in November 1986 attempted to shred and alter the paper trail reflecting their Iran/contra activities. > > \ > > Poindexter and North were less successful in eradicating the computer-message trail of their Iran/contra activities. Poindexter and North often communicated through a special channel that **Poindexter, a computer expert** , had set up on the NSC computer system. This channel, known as ``Private Blank Check,’’ allowed Poindexter and North to relay messages to each other without their being routed through channels in which others on the NSC staff could screen them. > > Between November 22 to 29, 1986, North deleted from his computer file 736 messages, and Poindexter deleted 5,012 messages during the same period.2 **Despite these deletions, the White House routinely saved back-up tapes containing all data in the system for two weeks to protect against inadvertent loss.** When the Iran/contra affair was exposed in late November 1986, the White House Communications Agency, which manages the NSC computer system, retained the back-up tapes dating from November 15. Investigators, therefore, were able to retrieve copies of all messages that were in the Poindexter-North computer files in mid-November 1986 before most of the deletions occurred. These computer messages became important evidence in both the Poindexter and North trials. :smack: The backup tapes. Those IT hosers. ---
**Author:** ![barton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@barton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barton)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/11 "2002-11-28T05:55:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > [ > What’s next? are we going to hire G. Gordon Liddy for homeland security? How about Oliver North as Drug Czar? Nah… worse. Check the news. Try Henry Kissinger as head of the 9/11 commission. Try finding an honest man now with that lantern, buddy! Hah! The Democrats should have had a sense of humor and nominated Bin Laden for the vice chairmanship… sigh. Another missed opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/12 "2002-11-28T06:23:30Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by barton_ > > Nah… worse. Check the news. Try Henry Kissinger as head of the 9/11 commission. Gah! Well, I shouldn’t be surprised. Who would know more about illegal bombing? Ashcroft, Poindexter, Kissinger, Cheney, Rove—it’s like a league of super villains bent on world domination. Where oh where is Batman when we need him? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/13 "2002-11-28T10:59:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Where oh where is Batman when we need him? On the advice of his dead father, and in order to win the love of a woman, he decided to step into the special chamber, activating it with a certain crystal which robbed him of… Oh wait. Wrong hero. I don’t know where Batman is. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/14 "2002-11-28T12:49:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*For the record, I tend to keep my inflammatory and intellectually dishonests posts to the pit. I try to be slightly more thoughtful in GD. > \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > Ashcroft, Poindexter, Kissinger, Cheney, Rove—it’s like a league of super villains bent on world domination. Where oh where is Batman when we need him? \*\* Gotcha. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/15 "2002-11-28T14:58:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Gotcha. well, I DID say “tend to.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/16 "2002-11-28T16:15:21Z")
**Dio** I gotta agree about the intellectual dishonesty in your postings. Your description of Poindexter makes him out to be merely scurillous, rather than loathesome. I trust you will take this criticism to heart, and in ther future be more accurate in your depictions and descriptions of those men who are entrusted to oversee the construction of the handbasket, and to map out the journey to our Destination. ---
**Author:** ![amazonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f08c70/32.png) [@amazonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amazonian)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/17 "2002-11-28T21:33:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skid Row \* > \*\*Poindexter (what a FANTASTIC handle he’s been hung with, huh?) is about as qualified for this position as O. J. Simpson and Pee Wee Herman. Isn’t it amazing that, in this post-9/11 nation, the greatest threat to our freedom and our nation’s future comes from our president, our ruling party and our attorney general. > > Who’s the real terrorist? > > Scared yet? \*\* the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing everybody he didn’t exist. AMEN AMEN AND AMEN… man I was waiting for a person to say something not stupid.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![TBone2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@TBone2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBone2)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/18 "2002-11-28T22:41:14Z")
OOPS! I thought I was in Great Debates, but there’s no debate amongst this collection of, um, non-Republicans. At the risk of agreeing, I must admit that the thought of a high government official who is a liar and perjurer is pretty frightening! My God! Can you imagine what it would be like if we had a _president_ who was a liar and perjurer??!! Perish the thought! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/19 "2002-11-28T23:27:42Z")
Imagine having a president with DIMENSIA! Who was SENILE!!! ---
**Author:** ![TBone2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@TBone2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBone2)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250/20 "2002-11-29T00:10:40Z")
I’d settle for being flamed by someone who can spell ‘dementia.’ I’ll just wait around until that happens… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-convicted-felon-rifling-through-americas-computer-files/139250.md?page=2)