# Why is a definite article used for rivers but not other bodies of water? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 18, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422 "2014-07-18T03:49:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/21 "2014-07-18T17:38:27Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > “He’s away at _the_ university” sounds weird to me, unless unambiguously referring to a specific local university that is “the university” to you as much as the local river is “the river”. Are you from the UK, by chance? Here in the US, we’d say “gone off to college” or “going to [university name]”, where the university’s name is almost always abbreviated (e.g. UW for University of Washington, Caltech for California Institute of Technology, etc.). The only times I’ve heard “at university” is from british or australian comedians. “He’s away at university” without a “the” in it sounds weird to **me**. Ironically, I’ll bet neither of us would have our accustomed usage marked wrong by a proofreader. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/22 "2014-07-18T17:44:16Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > At least in the U.S., it’s likely due to the fact that rivers cross multiple states. The rivers are labeled as to where the mouth is; the Mississippi, Ohio and Arkansas, for instance, do this. A colorado river means any river in the State of Colorado; The Colorado River is a specific stream. The mouths of the Mississippi, the Ohio, and the Colorado are in Louisiana, Illinois/Kentucky/Missouri, and Mexico (unless you mean the Colorado river in Texas). You did get Arkansas right. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/23 "2014-07-18T18:01:01Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > “He’s away at _the_ university” sounds weird to me, unless unambiguously referring to a specific local university that is “the university” to you as much as the local river is “the river”. It does, and that’s not a good example, but that’s one of those things that, in US English anyway, articles and prepositions can change the meaning. “He’s at the college,” means that right now, he is physically at whatever college is understood by the speaker and listener for “him” to have some purpose to be at. He may not be a student-- he may be on the janitorial staff, or the Vice President, or there to buy tickets to the theater department’s production of _My Fair Lady_. “He’s in college” means he is currently a student, enrolled, probably full-time working toward a degree, in a college. He may not be there now-- he may be hundreds of miles from campus, because it’s summer break, but he’s still “in college.” For some reason, when someone is enrolled in a big university in one of the schools that is not part of the College of Arts and Sciences, but one of the specialty schools, like the school of nursing, or the school of music, most people would probably still say the person in “in college.” We do the same thing with prepositions in other situations “in the hospital” means something different from “at the hospital.” Something that is very hard to explain to a non-native speaker. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/24 "2014-07-18T22:01:56Z")
In English worldwide, there’s the same distinction with or without the article for “college”, “school”, “church”, “jail”, and a few others: Including the article just means that you’re physically at the location (janitor, at a PTA meeting, organizing the rummage sale, visiting an inmate, whatever), while leaving it off means that you’re a client, so to speak, of the institution (student, worshiper, prisoner, etc.). Everywhere but the US, “hospital” works the same way; it’s just that one word that the US differs on. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/25 "2014-07-18T22:12:28Z")
Some of us are old enough to remember when you talked (in hushed tones) about people having “the cancer.” ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/26 "2014-07-19T00:57:16Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > Really? I don’t think I’ve ever heard it used without the article, and I live in Seattle (well, the Eastside). Sometimes just “the Sound” without Puget. I’ve lived here my entire life and I’ve never heard (that I can remember) “The Puget Sound”. I do hear “The Sound”, but never a “the” attached to “Puget Sound”. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/27 "2014-07-19T01:00:17Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > The mouths of the Mississippi, the Ohio, and the Colorado are in Louisiana, Illinois/Kentucky/Missouri, and Mexico (unless you mean the Colorado river in Texas). You did get Arkansas right. :Facepalm: ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/28 "2014-07-19T01:04:10Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > This is a useless discussion. The plain fact is that there is no reason. Why do we say, “He’s away at college”, but “he’s away at the university”? Why do we say, “he’s in the hospital” while Canadians (and Brits, I think) say, “he’s in hospital” (and “he’s away at University”)? There are some features of language that just are. I started a thread long ago about why some groups of mountains are The \_\_\_\_Mountains, while others are The\_\_\_\_Range. No real reason, just whatever somebody decided to call them. Most of the mountains in Alaska are in Ranges, while it seems most mountains elsewhere in the states are in Mountains. Even more confusing, there are mountain ranges out there. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/29 "2014-07-19T03:37:39Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > lakes have the word ‘lake’ at the front of the name; e.g. Lake Superior For the most part, that’s only true of very large and important lakes. Small lakes most often have the generic at the end—unless they’re putting on airs for some reason or sometimes for no good reason at all. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/30 "2014-07-19T03:50:29Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > Really? I don’t think I’ve ever heard it used without the article, and I live in Seattle (well, the Eastside). Sometimes just “the Sound” without Puget. A Google search shows many instances of it used without the article. In fact, it mainly appears with the article in reference to “the Puget Sound area (or region).” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/31 "2014-07-19T04:05:46Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I started a thread long ago about why some groups of mountains are The \_\_\_\_Mountains, while others are The\_\_\_\_Range. No real reason, just whatever somebody decided to call them. Most of the mountains in Alaska are in Ranges, while it seems most mountains elsewhere in the states are in Mountains. Even more confusing, there are mountain ranges out there. Most of the time, I just hear The \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. Like, I have only ever heard “The Sierras”, I guess because “Sierra Mountains” would be kind of redundant. Or the Sangre de Cristos I think are rarely referred to as the Sangre de Cristo Mountains. However, by my old hometown, I think they always say “The Blue Mountains”, to avoid confusion with sadness or music. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/32 "2014-07-19T05:08:47Z")
All I know is I’d rather be an Asshole instead of The Asshole. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/33 "2014-07-19T06:06:23Z")
People just call me Asshole, there is no definite or indefinite article involved. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/34 "2014-07-19T06:25:10Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Some of us are old enough to remember when you talked (in hushed tones) about people having “the cancer.” Or “the clap.” ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/35 "2014-07-19T10:42:04Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > Complete WAG - lakes have the word ‘lake’ at the front of the name; e.g. Lake Superior. Rivers, on the other hand, have the word ‘river’ at the end of the name; e.g. The Hudson River. It almost makes the ‘name’ part of the river follow the normal adjective modifying the word flow (the word being modified being river), and so including the definite article seems appropriate. With the name following the word lake, it doesn’t quite follow - it seems more like a proper noun. That can’t be the explanation, because in British English the word ‘River’ goes before the name. So, it’s ‘the River Thames’ etc., not ‘the Thames River’. What’s more, that’s been the standard form in British English since before there was such a thing as American English. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/36 "2014-07-19T11:04:59Z")
“The Manila Bay” is also common here in our place. It might have something to do with the naming. A familiar first name will require an article. Exception is Lake Michigan. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/37 "2014-07-19T20:37:32Z")
Rivers are sometimes referred to without “River” in the name;e.g., the Potomac, the Ashley, etc., and it is known that you are referring to that river. Not so with other bodies of water. This doesn’t hold true for rivers that may cause confusion. I’ve never heard the Chicago River referred to as “the Chicago,” but the Illinois river is often called just “the Illinois.” ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/38 "2014-07-19T21:52:57Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > A Google search shows many instances of it used without the article. In fact, it mainly appears with the article in reference to “the Puget Sound area (or region).” I was going to point that out also, the “the” in that case really isn’t attached (or whatever the term is) to “puget sound” is attached to “area/region”, that’s the only time I hear “the” in front of “puget sound”. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/39 "2014-07-19T23:04:41Z")
Cape Horn, but the Cape of Good Hope. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422/40 "2014-07-19T23:28:47Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > This is a useless discussion. The plain fact is that there is no reason. Why do we say, “He’s away at college”, but “he’s away at the university”? Why do we say, “he’s in the hospital” while Canadians (and Brits, I think) say, “he’s in hospital” (and “he’s away at University”)? There are some features of language that just are. Brits say both - “he’s in hospital” means he’s a patient, “He’s in _the_ hospital” means he’s inside the building generally. (none of which negates your point - that some features of language are just so) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-a-definite-article-used-for-rivers-but-not-other-bodies-of-water/693422.md?page=3)