What values is Disney presented that need to be eschewed?
er, has Disney presented…
stpauler, I’m not interested in debating our decision regarding Disney. That’s not the point here.
I have seen no one “agog” about censorship. I mentioned it as a neutral term describing an action. (I have no problem with parents censoring what their children see, based on the age of the children and the degree of censorship.)
I am, however, “agog” at the notion of rudely getting in the face of every friend and relation and demanding that no Disney product of any sort be brought across my threshhold.
You don’t want Disney? Exclude Disney.
Making an issue of Disney that seemsto equate them to NAMBLA with rather scanty supporting explanation will provoke the reactions of which the OP complains.
I have no doubt that the Disney merchandising phenomenon (along with McDonalds, Coca-cola, and other “American Institutions”) is probably far more pervasive in the US than it is here, I’m not sure how Disney is any MORE dangerous than any other film producer whose business is interpreting stories.
If you don’t like the way Disney interprets a particular children’s story, then it’s a great opportunity to share with your children the original. The works of the brothers Grimm, Hans Christian Andersen, James M Barrie, Lewis Carroll, and A.A. Milne are still available. Yes, when you’ve seen a film based on a book the visual images stick in your mind - but that’s as true of adult literature as of children’s.
I defy you to read The Silence of the Lambs and NOT see the face of Anthony Hopkins every time the name Hannibal Lecter is mentioned.
If you’ve seen the film of just about any novel ever written BEFORE reading the book, I defy you not to notice that while some stay fairly faithful to the original story, many render it almost unidentifiable.
The precise reason so many Tolkein fans did NOT want the LOTR books made into movies was because whatever manner the film used to characterise the mythical creatures would become the dominant mental image of them for future generations.
I loathe the Marvel comic characters migrating to film because the original characters become so corrupted in the process - nonethless, I’ll watch the movies with my children and then we’ll discuss at length the shortcomings of the film.
While I accept absolutely that you have a right to control what images and opinions come into your home, I hope that you and your child are never hurt by other parents exercising that very same right.
Actually, it is the point. The complaint in the OP is that people are aghast at the decision. With no context for that decision, (but a declaration of nearly violent rudeness to support it), the “principles” that led to that decision are of more than passing interest to the people who have been verbally assaulted on the subject.
If the request was presented as “Please do not provide Disney-based toys for our children.” Then there might be some 'Why?"s. However, presenting demands that Disney never darken one’s door, while refusing to explain why, will certainly pique the responses that further raised the hackles in the OP.
tomndebb, nobody who has been asked not to give our child Disney gifts has been refused reasons. I don’t see why you have come to that conclusion, which is completely unwarranted and rather insulting.
The OP in this thread, however, is questioning why Disney is a “sacred cow” that parents cannot reasonably choose to exclude from their home. stpauler’s demand for a rationalization, if granted, would serve to deflect the debate from the “sacredness” of Disney into a discussion of the merits of the underlying decision, which I, at least, wish to avoid. Can we, for the sake of discussion, assume that there is some reasonable merit to excluding Disney from the home, and discuss instead why doing so provokes such a strong reaction?
At least Cessandra and Captain Amazing stayed on topic. But then Blalron misrepresented the OP’s position as censorship, and samclem posted the unnecessarily diversionary links to the other threads, and the focus was lost. So much for the OP’s debate.
I think the difference here is that Disney is culture/mass media/whatever you want to call it, and God is a religious concept. In order to bring someone up religiously, you have to make an effort, whereas when you show them a movie, you don’t. In other words, not raising your child religiously is more a passive choice, while banning Disney from your house is an active one. And a lack of God implies that a family just doesn’t want to go through the hassles of incorporating religion. However, with Disney, you’ll have to make an extra effort (i.e., asking friends/family not to give Disney themed gifts, resisting when your child begs not to be the only one not going to Disney world) to enforce this restriction.
I’m also wondering why you think your decision on Disney isn’t the point. You specifically brought it up in your OP.
There’s still a debate going on here. Just not the one the OP hoped for.
From my own personal experience, I find that people are much more worried that my kids aren’t baptised than if they watch Disney or not. In fact the only person who ever interacted with that cared more about Disney than religion is lee.
I based it on the rather vague rhetoric that lee has so far provided in the other threads (and the lack of explanation in this thread).
It doesn’t bother me, one way or the other. lee asked “Why?” and I provided a possible answer.
If you do not want to hear an answer, do not ask the question. If you do not want to be challenged in your beliefs, do not post on the SDMB.
If you simply wish to take umbrage with the world, this should have been posted in the Pit.
This seems to be more of a declaration than a discussion. Have fun.
From what I read, people were saying that Disney is so prevalent in our society that attempts to shield a child from any taint of the mouse are futile. Sooner or later, your child will come across Disney.
Anyone who said “I am an athiest, therefore my children will never hear anything about God, ever. They will be raised in an entirely diety free environment. They will never hear about nor see traces of any belief in a higher power. I will keep that out of their world” would be met with the same derision. Sooner or later, the kid is going to be in a mall in December, or the parent will drive by a house of worship, or something.
It just isn’t possible to shield kids from something that widespread.
damn, just beat me to it.
lee,
the reason people make fun of you most likely has little to do w/disney.
It sounds reasonable to me. Personally, I have no desire to give Disney any money, or to allow someone else to give them money on my behalf. It’s close to unavoidable, considering how many other brands can be traced back to Disney, but I can sure try.
On Poor Children
A nine-year-old girl is found in the stairwell of a crack house in Chicago. She has been repeatedly raped. Her stomach contains gasoline. Upon her body is the mark of a gang insignia, a pitch fork, made with something like a magic marker.
When she is found she is unconscious. Blood, drool, and semen cover her face. Her eyes, swollen from strangulation, stare bloodshot straight ahead. Even the kindness of death has escaped her.
Her fingers, cracked by brute force against futile resistance, are curled up in weird angles at the ends of her limp, bruised arms. Her chest heaves involuntarily as her heart tries desperately to pump a few more times.
The stairwell spirals in both directions, echoing moans and screams that, like the wind, seem to come from everywhere and go nowhere. A light between the thirtieth and thirty-first floors flashes bright elecric blue-white, then dies, leaving a dank, horrible twilight.
The tall building is in a row with others like it, in a neighborhood with other rows. The sounds are of busyness, of car horns, of shouts, of occasional gunfire. The sights are of bars and broken glass, stripped cars, and people chasing, people fleeing.
The neighborhood is nestled among other less dingy neighborhoods, where good citizens have paid their taxes and settled their debts with the statistically poor.
The president is having coffee with a millionaire from an enemy state. The congress is arguing over four billion versus six billion out of two trillion. The judges are deciding what all of it means.
Above the din of American society, in a wild chaotic blend, the lone thought of a helpless girl cries out to an angry God, “Where is my mother?”
Funny, I must have missed the Disney movie Libertarian is describing.
Sounds like a Touchstone prodution.
The OP is wrong in it’s conclusion that members of this board are concerned that she will not allow and Disney products/movies/whatever to contact her child. People really don’t give a damn about that. A certain post included a rather funny joke at her expense, and now we have been subjected to at least 2 more threads by her, looking for some sort of justification from other members here that she is right. LISTEN
NO ONE GIVES A DAMN IF YOUR KID SEES BAMBI.
WE LAUGHED AT YOU
GET OVER IT
QUIT MAKING NEW THREADS, THIS SITE IS SLOW AND UNSTABLE ENOUGH AS IT IS WITHOUT THIS NONSENSE.
W.D. puts no pressure on you
it just lets your mind be caressed with bubble gum vision
God is concerned with the parts W.D. doesnt reach and is not confined to the US culture wrappings.
If you posted a thread “Should I raise my child to be a Christian?” you will get tons of responses from people of various faiths. Some will argue that faith in things you can’t see is ridiculous, others will argue that your child’s soul will be committed to hell if you don’t baptize your child. And all comments will be fair game. Because you have solicited such opinions.
However, in your case you have already made the decision. To question that decision, or to criticize your choice not to baptize your child, is considered exceedingly rude and impertinent in our culture. People’s religions are sacred and questioning that faith is verboten.
There is no social more that says we can’t question your decision to ban Disney from your house. Disney isn’t a sacred choice despite the emphasis you have placed on it.
BTW, here is a thread you might find interesting:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=152708
To recap, a poster who is agnostic just received a gift from his mother…a Bible.
While some people did advise him to do something rude in retaliation, most advised forebearance. Why? Because he loved his mother and sometimes we bite our tongues in order to preserve relationships with people we love. Even with issues as fundamental as our faith.
Pooh isn’t even worth getting your blood pressure up.
PunditLisa, what if the unwanted gift is from a casual acquaintance whom you don’t care about all that much and who often annoys and vexes you in other ways, but whom you cannot avoid?