# Why is America so wealthy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 25, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854 "2011-01-25T00:22:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/41 "2011-01-25T15:20:35Z")
> [@MattProle](#): > > Why is America so wealthy?? The fact that the United States can print unlimited amounts of money and borrow trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars. I think any country that borrowed 14 trillion dollars would be wealthy, just as if the United States had to pay back 15 trillion dollars it would no longer be wealthy . ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/42 "2011-01-25T15:32:25Z")
šŸ˜› Ok, quick question. Why donā€™t you go out and borrow a billion dollars and become wealthy yourself? -XT ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/43 "2011-01-25T15:46:32Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Slave labor (which later became extremely low-cost near-slave labor after slavery was outlawed) has sure helped. > > I know this may come across as a snarky response but itā€™s meant as an honest and factual response- if someone can prove that our chronic exploitation of extremely cheap-to-free labor has not contributed significantly to our wealth as a nation then by all means go ahead. Of course much of our national debt is to these cheap labor countries - and it sure doesnā€™t seem like we have any intention of ever repaying most of it. So in a way, slavery lives on. Iā€™l take the polar opposite view. The south, which had slavery, was in fact the worst developed part of the country economically, even before the Civil War. One major factor was the \*\*\*shortage \*\*\*of people. There were never enough workers to go around despite frequent influx of immigrants, and every employer had to compete with free farmland a thousand miles west. This led to an industrialization that valued innovaton and mechanization over brute force manual labour. Plus, a freer, less rigid social structure - the ā€œAmerican Dreamā€ was no pipe dream. People could do what they want, build what they want, sell what they wanted, while much of Europe was still tied up with guild laws, licensing, and similar commercial restrictions. The alternative road to wealth - look at the countries that have excelled - Taiwan, Japan, S.Korea, China. As long as the leadership was for whatever reason commited to modernization and allowing commercial growth, things have worked for them. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/44 "2011-01-25T22:46:18Z")
Here are my reasons, in order of importance: 1. Vast (mostly) virgin resources per capita right about the time that the industrial revolution gave us a way to exploit them. 2. Immigrationā€“the US was (and is) largely populated by people with the intelligence and drive to leave their country to come to this one to make a better life. Possibly this should be number 1. 3. Isolated from invasion. The early US spent relatively little money in keeping a standing army/navy. The 1800ā€™s saw only two major wars (albeit one was very major). Europe was going at it all the time. 4. Government system that supported commerce. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/45 "2011-01-25T23:21:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Hmm. If this thesis is correct, then perhaps you can explain why it didnā€™t similarly benefit China, which has had slavery at least since the Xia and Shang dynasty, some thousand years before the birth of Christ, imported African slaves beginning with the Tang and Son dynasties (900 AD), and did not abolish slavery until January 31, 1910. As the OP points out, China is #2. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/46 "2011-01-25T23:34:00Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Iā€™ve some doubts about this one. Not that Iā€™m a specialist or anything, but Iā€™ve been reading for a long time (first time around 1992, when writing an assignement for a girlfriend) that US infrastructure wasnā€™t that great and in particular wasnā€™t maintened properly or sufficiently modernized. I would say it depends on what infrastructure youā€™re talking about and compared to _what_. Something that often gets lost when comparing Russia, Canada, or Australia to the United States is we have relatively significant people who live _throughout the entire country_. Even North Dakota has some ā€œrealā€ cities, and there are interstates highways serving all fifty states (although obviously the interstate in Hawaii doesnā€™t leave the islands ;).) Even in very rural states itā€™s gotten rare to see unpaved roads these days, at least roads that arenā€™t exclusively used by hunters, farmers, ranchers or etc or private paths. What other country in the world, of our size, has such a large road system as the interstate highway system that is being constantly maintained every where it exists? I wonā€™t argue that hyper-settled countries like the European microstates donā€™t have better road coverage, but they also could fit many times over into an average American state. Our railroad system is also quite good, but people often forget this because it is only really good for freight (Amtrak sucks throughout most of the country, with the exception of a few lines that are fast and well run.) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/47 "2011-01-25T23:37:20Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > As the OP points out, China is #2. Only in terms of raw GDP, GDP per capita (a measure of actual wealth for a population of people) China ranks abysmally low. 128th in the world, and it is in the same tier as Turkmenistan, Ecuador, and Albania in that measure (and out ranked by Brazil, Cuba, Iran, Mexico, Russia, and Belize.) ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/48 "2011-01-25T23:43:53Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Only in terms of raw GDP, GDP per capita (a measure of actual wealth for a population of people) China ranks abysmally low. 128th in the world, and it is in the same tier as Turkmenistan, Ecuador, and Albania in that measure (and out ranked by Brazil, Cuba, Iran, Mexico, Russia, and Belize.) Well yeah, when you count all the slaves. Perhaps in counting them for purposes of GDP we could come to some kind ofā€¦ compromise. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/49 "2011-01-26T00:00:09Z")
I vaguely recall it having something to do with firearms, microbes and carbon-iron alloys. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/50 "2011-01-26T00:04:53Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I vaguely recall it having something to do with firearms, microbes and carbon-iron alloys. Quick! figure out how to make that same point over and over and over and over again, teasing it out to 300 pages, and you too can have a best seller. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/51 "2011-01-26T00:18:23Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Well yeah, when you count all the slaves. Perhaps in counting them for purposes of GDP we could come to some kind ofā€¦ compromise. Or we could just admit that the slavery point was stupid and not really relevant to the discussion. The question is why is America rich relative to China, if itā€™s your argument that both China and America was built on the back of slaves, then why is America richer than China? If your argument is they are both ā€œEVIL SLAVE PROFITEERING COUNTRIESā€ then you agree that for the purpose of _comparing the two countries_ slavery is **irrelevant** , since it isnā€™t a _difference_. One would assume if you have two countries that did the same thing (profit from slaves) yet one is far richer than the other, there must be _something else_ going on that made the richer country richer, since the slavery issue is a ā€œpush.ā€ Obviously I think the whole slavery point was plain wrong, but thereā€™s really no reason to argue it because even in the context of your wrongheadedness logic demands you look at other reasons for the _wealth discrepancy_ between China and the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/52 "2011-01-26T01:26:52Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Well yeah, when you count all the slaves. Perhaps in counting them for purposes of GDP we could come to some kind ofā€¦ compromise. No slaves were counted in calculating either the US or Chinaā€™s per capita GDP standing. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/53 "2011-01-26T01:50:52Z")
Iā€™m going to give a list of reasons: 1. Wealth is currently measured in dollars. The US is the only legal source of dollars. 2. The US enforces debts according to a relatively non-corrupt set of laws that highly values property rights. This include debts owed by the US. 3. No slave labor. Slave labor ruins an economy. Read DeToquevilleā€™s Democracy In America where he observes poverty in slave states on one side of a river and productivity on the other. 4. Vast resources internally that were given to companies willing to exploit them. 5. Two oceans and two neighbors unwilling to cause trouble. Long term physical security of the state is better than any country in history so people are willing to invest. 6. Heavy industrialization through two world wars where US acted as armorer for the winning side while not having its industry obliterated like everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/54 "2011-01-26T01:53:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No slaves were counted in calculating either the US or Chinaā€™s per capita GDP standing. Yeah? Cause: > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Most poorer countries than the United States likewise exploited slave labor and extremely cheap labor, and many of them continue to do so. (Read about slave-labor factories they discover all the time in China that only really get shut down because it makes the press and embarrasses the government.) It sure sounds like itā€™s still going on. I mean, we can stick our heads in the sand all day if you wantā€¦ plus itā€™s not like all those factory workers making a dollar or two a day are anything other than slaves but in name. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Or we could just admit that the slavery point was stupid and not really relevant to the discussion. The question is why is America rich relative to China, if itā€™s your argument that both China and America was built on the back of slaves, then why is America richer than China? If your argument is they are both ā€œEVIL SLAVE PROFITEERING COUNTRIESā€ then you agree that for the purpose of _comparing the two countries_ slavery is **irrelevant** , since it isnā€™t a _difference_. One would assume if you have two countries that did the same thing (profit from slaves) yet one is far richer than the other, there must be _something else_ going on that made the richer country richer, since the slavery issue is a ā€œpush.ā€ > > Obviously I think the whole slavery point was plain wrong, but thereā€™s really no reason to argue it because even in the context of your wrongheadedness logic demands you look at other reasons for the _wealth discrepancy_ between China and the United States. Nah. Itā€™s absolutely ludicrous to assume that because slavery existed in more than one place, and the ultimate fates of those people (who were the enslavers) werenā€™t exactly the same, that it has no relevance to anything whatsoever. Obviously, there are myriad factors that determine the wealth of a nation. But to pretend like our long, proud tradition (which continues in full force to this day) of exploiting the shit out of poor, mostly brown people has absolutely no bearing on why we are rich and they remain poor and itā€™s really all about these lofty concepts of ā€œfreedomā€ and ā€œindependenceā€ā€¦ yeah, keep telling yourselves that. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/55 "2011-01-26T03:04:41Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Iā€™d say the answer to the question is going to be in the form of a debate, since I doubt there is a precise answer to it. I just wanted to post [this](http://www.gapminder.org/world/#$majorMode=chart$is;shi=t;ly=2003;lb=f;il=t;fs=11;al=32;stl=t;st=t;nsl=t;se=t$wst;tts=C$ts;sp=5.59290322580644;ti=2006$zpv;v=0$inc_x;mmid=XCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj1jiMAkmq1iMg;by=ind$inc_y;mmid=YCOORDS;iid=pyj6tScZqmEfI4sLVvEQtHw;by=ind$inc_s;uniValue=8.21;iid=phAwcNAVuyj0XOoBL_n5tAQ;by=ind$inc_c;uniValue=255;gid=CATID0;by=grp$map_x;scale=log;dataMin=295;dataMax=79210$map_y;scale=lin;dataMin=25531524;dataMax=11410956353536$map_s;sma=49;smi=2.65$cd;bd=0$inds=i44_t001960,,,,;i239_t001960,,,,;i82_t001971,,,,) link, since it graphically shows the GDP difference between the US and China pretty wellā€¦plus itā€™s a lot of fun to play with. > > Iā€™ll leave it to others to figure out if this question can be answered in terms of GQ. > > -XT You might like this, which is a discussion and display of a similar graph of personal income on a logarithmic scale vs. life expectancy. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/jbkSRLYSojo/hqdefault.jpg "Hans Rosling's 200 Countries, 200 Years, 4 Minutes - The Joy of Stats - BBC") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo) ---
**Author:** ![ironbender](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ba8739/32.png) [@ironbender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ironbender)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/56 "2011-01-26T12:24:33Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Iā€™ve some doubts about this one. Not that Iā€™m a specialist or anything, but Iā€™ve been reading for a long time (first time around 1992, when writing an assignement for a girlfriend) that US infrastructure wasnā€™t that great and in particular wasnā€™t maintened properly or sufficiently modernized. Probally true, except for freight railroads. The US freight railroad system is without a doubt the best in the world. It is very well mantained, quite innovative, highly efficient, and very modern. European railroad officials come to the US so they can try to emulate our system. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/57 "2011-01-26T13:53:17Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Iā€™m going to give a list of reasons: > > 1. Wealth is currently measured in dollars. The US is the only legal source of dollars. Not sure I understand this one. Would the per capita GDP figures be markedly different if measured in yuan? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/58 "2011-01-26T13:58:02Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Yeah? Cause: > > It sure sounds like itā€™s still going on. I mean, we can stick our heads in the sand all day if you wantā€¦ plus itā€™s not like all those factory workers making a dollar or two a day are anything other than slaves but in name. > > Nah. Itā€™s absolutely ludicrous to assume that because slavery existed in more than one place, and the ultimate fates of those people (who were the enslavers) werenā€™t exactly the same, that it has no relevance to anything whatsoever. Obviously, there are myriad factors that determine the wealth of a nation. But to pretend like our long, proud tradition (which continues in full force to this day) of exploiting the shit out of poor, mostly brown people has absolutely no bearing on why we are rich and they remain poor and itā€™s really all about these lofty concepts of ā€œfreedomā€ and ā€œindependenceā€ā€¦ yeah, keep telling yourselves that. But the basic problem with your point remains. If use of slavery is the factor is our wealth, why isnā€™t it in Chinaā€™s wealth? When I brought this up, you rebutted it by pointing out that Chinaā€™s GDP is large, but I countered this point by observing that you were not using per capita GDP; if you do, the US outstrips China considerably. Since both countries used slave labor, and indeed China used it before the US did and ended the practice after the US did, how can you claim the reason for our wealth is slavery? ---
**Author:** ![Anachronism](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Anachronism](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anachronism)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/59 "2011-01-26T14:03:33Z")
Isnā€™t the fact that the US is the worlds reserve currency a huge bonus? ---
**Author:** ![misling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ab097/32.png) [@misling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misling)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854/60 "2011-01-26T14:37:11Z")
Quote; Isnā€™t the fact that the US is the worlds reserve currency a huge bonus? I should think it might be the other way around: the world uses the US currency as its reserve because the US has one of the more large and stable currencies. If that currency were to become seriously unreliable, and another currency become more large and stable, surely ā€œthe worldā€ would switch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-america-so-wealthy/568854.md?page=4)