# Why is an attorney defending themselves. a fool ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 20, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-an-attorney-defending-themselves-a-fool/784852 "2017-04-20T16:10:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-an-attorney-defending-themselves-a-fool/784852/21 "2017-04-24T03:07:20Z")
Well a barister might defend himself, but I guess if the case requires a barister, the prosecutor and judge may negotiate with the barister but not if its the defendent. Approach the bar ? The defendant won’t approach the bar… The only thing in a lesser case, is that the magistrate or defendant may feel that the defendant has already answered a question fully , so when it comes time for the defense evidence, its left out ? its accidentally given unsworn , as argument, rather than sworn in as evidence ? Or the defendant may use phrases he knows from reading law, and that makes his evidence sound like its made up from reading another case rather than the true story of his own case. ---
**Author:** ![Warm\_blood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Warm\_blood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Warm_blood)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-an-attorney-defending-themselves-a-fool/784852/22 "2017-04-24T03:44:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The classic _“Were you wearing your glasses when you saw me committing the crime?”_ blunder. If you shoehorn “allegedly” between the pronoun and the verb, surely that avoids unintentional self-incrimination, no? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-an-attorney-defending-themselves-a-fool/784852/23 "2017-04-24T15:11:07Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I always thought that saying was talking about people who _aren’t_ attorneys trying to represent themselves in court. No, it’s about people who _are_ attorneys. I wouldn’t dream of representing myself in any matter more serious than a traffic infraction. It’s (probably) not my field for one thing. For another, an attorney serves four roles, not just one: counselor, negotiator, advocate and evaluator. I can probably be an effective advocate for myself, but objective counselor? No. This applies in US system, but not so much in English/Welsh law because of the solicitor/barrister demarcation. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-an-attorney-defending-themselves-a-fool/784852/24 "2017-04-24T17:55:15Z")
I’ve never heard it limited to lawyers: “Anyone who defends themselves has a fool for a client” is the version I’m familiar with. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-an-attorney-defending-themselves-a-fool/784852/25 "2017-04-24T18:05:17Z")
In one of the Perry Mason novels (written by Erle Stanley Gardner, himself a lawyer), the D.A. Hamilton Burger threatens to have Mason arrested, and Mason says he wants a lawyer. Burger says that’s ridiculous, and Mason says he’s not kidding, he wants someone impartial looking out for his interests. As it turned out, Burger backed down, and we never learn (at least in that book, I haven’t read all of them) whom Mason would have called. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-an-attorney-defending-themselves-a-fool/784852/26 "2017-04-24T22:22:17Z")
So if I’m understanding things correctly, the basic issue is that… 1. Defendants should keep their mouths shut as much as they can. 2. Attorneys need to talk a lot. So when the defendant acts as an attorney that contradiction puts the defense at great risk. Did I get this right? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-an-attorney-defending-themselves-a-fool/784852/27 "2017-04-24T22:34:02Z")
That’s an issue specific to criminal cases, but yes, that’s a reasonable _precis_. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-an-attorney-defending-themselves-a-fool/784852/28 "2017-04-25T00:21:36Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > So if I’m understanding things correctly, the basic issue is that… > > 1. Defendants should keep their mouths shut as much as they can. > 2. Attorneys need to talk a lot. > > So when the defendant acts as an attorney that contradiction puts the defense at great risk. Did I get this right? There have been a number of attorneys weigh in on the tread, and they all describe they talk about objectivity as the most important factor. See **UltraVires** ’s post. **UV** is currently a practicing defense attorney. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-an-attorney-defending-themselves-a-fool/784852/29 "2017-04-25T01:00:09Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I always thought that saying was talking about people who _aren’t_ attorneys trying to represent themselves in court. Third-ed. I’ve always taken it to be a somewhat _backwards_ way to say that you are a fool if you try to represent yourself. I’ve never heard or assumed it to mean anything else. Until I opened this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-an-attorney-defending-themselves-a-fool/784852/30 "2017-04-25T15:23:56Z")
If I’m charged with mopery, should I hire **Bricker** , **Really** , or **UV**? Society made me mope. ETA: [What is "mopery?" - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=60558) GQ on it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-an-attorney-defending-themselves-a-fool/784852.md?page=1)