# Why is bad grammar so irritating? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 1, 2001, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726 "2001-02-01T16:24:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/41 "2001-02-02T19:28:38Z")
Does “ibm” mean the same thing as “IBM”? Does “fortran” mean the same thing as “FORTRAN”? Does “really stupid” mean the same things as “REALLY STUPID”? How exactly do you decide which letters merit capitalization and which ones do not? ---
**Author:** ![Ptahlis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a8b319/32.png) [@Ptahlis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ptahlis)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/42 "2001-02-02T19:38:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dal\_timgar \* > \*\*you are the perfect example of the anal retentive pseudointellectuals i avoid. let me know when you pass the IQ test to get into mensa, my membership expired in '86. > > i love annoying people who confuse erudition with intellect. \*\* “Anal-retentive pseudointellectual, eh?” I suggest you reread the part of my post above where I specifically stated that the basic rules that should be followed are only the ones that affect the ease of communication, and all others freely ignored. In any case, I never called your intellect into question, although I don’t recall any dazzling displays of it either. As far as confusing intellect and erudition, I assure you that I can well distinguish the two. Please feel free to provide an example of at least one. > [@](#): > > \*\* > the world is full of strange people Pthalis. you can look down your nose at them and they won’t give a damn. \*\* Oh, I never had _much_ hope that you would give a damn dal. Your refusal to lift a finger to the “Shift” key even after several other posters have told you that they find the presentation of your posts jarring or difficult to read is ample evidence of how much you give a damn. I don’t know whether it stems chiefly from laziness, rudeness, or an even mix of the two. Ptahlis P.S. Please feel free to go back to avoiding me. I’ll put you back on “ignore” as well, and we’ll both be happier. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/43 "2001-02-02T20:34:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dal\_timgar \* > \*\* > i expect computers to be STUPID. i expect human beings to be INTELLIGENT. when human beings insist on acting like computers i say, “WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR PROBLEM.” > > all i have done is not CAPITALIZE the beginning of my sentences. What is the BIG DEAL? doesn’t “Code” mean the same thing as “code”? > \*\* Ok DaL tImGaR, lEtS dIsCuSs YoUr ThEoRy ThAt capitalizatioN iS iRreLiVanT. CAn yOu HoNeStLy SaY tHAt tHIs POst iS aS eASy tO REaD aS A PROpeRlY CaPiTaLiZeD oNe? I dOUbt IT. I alSO EXpEcT pEOplE tO bE SmART. irRiTATinG lARge gRoUPs oF tHEm bY nOt ExPeNdInG tHE MiNuTe amMOUNT oF eNeRGy tO PREss yOuR pINKy FiNgERs On tHE ShIfT kEy DoESNt mAKe mUcH sEnSE. alSO iph KaPiT,alIzaTion iZ a. MoDe oph! SelpH eXprESSion aZ yEwSuGestIN? TheE FoLoWWin:G KwOtE! > [@](#): > > human beings put pressure on each other to conform to things that ARE NOT IMPORTANT. conformists expect everyone to be like them. tHen. Sh,oldN’t WeE AlTsO KoN,SiTeR sP!ElLiNg aNd gRaMmAr tO lYkE?wYzE bE mODeZ oPf sElf.f-EgsPrEsiONandAlSoRulEsa,boutSpaCing nO eYe dOnT ThNInk YoUr PROpozItI.oNholDs Up DaL? FoLoWwIngEstAbLisHed LaNguAGe rUleZ donotMakE! U A KoNfOrMiSt ZoMbiEY tHeYmaKe YeW KoMpRhEnSiBlE FeNrIs (who’s eyes are bleeding from proofing this post) ---
**Author:** ![dal\_timgar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@dal\_timgar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dal_timgar)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/44 "2001-02-02T20:45:36Z")
i confess i still have a tendency to think of IBM in capital letters but it come out Imperial Benevolent Malevalence. there are 2 books on IBM, read them both. THINK, BIOGRAPHY OF THE WATSONS AND IBM & THE SUN NEVER SETS ON IBM there was no mention of them at the company. REALLY Fenris! was typing that worth the trouble? you must know i’m not even going to try to read it. Dal Timgar ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/45 "2001-02-02T20:54:58Z")
Nobody follows good advice anymore. > [@](#): > > _dal\_timgar_ > what matters is the IDEAS in the post. what good is CAPITALIZATION in something not worth reading? Enough said? ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/46 "2001-02-02T21:01:23Z")
Despite my pledge to ignore your posts, **dal\_timgar** , there are a lot more than two books on IBM. I’m not sure what your point is, though, really. Last I checked, my management here didn’t recommend books to me at all, about or not about IBM… ---
**Author:** ![tourbot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tourbot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tourbot)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/47 "2001-02-02T21:03:40Z")
Unfair as it was to dal, I really didn’t have that much trouble reading Fenris’ post. It would be one thing if dal were generally incomprehensible, but missing a few capitals hardly calls for capital punishment. [sub]ouch. even i’m groaning at that pun.[/sub] Seriously, I actually like the way dal uses capitalization. If more people start typing like that, I may change my mind, though. Dal\_timgar is no harder to understand than someone who makes an occasional typo. Meanwhile, there are a few posters whose grammar is consistently bad enough to make comprehension difficult to impossible. I’m willing to put up with even those when they have something worthwhile to say. If you want to flame someone over grammar/spelling, maybe you should go pick on them? ---
**Author:** ![TheNerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@TheNerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheNerd)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/48 "2001-02-02T21:20:02Z")
**Podkayne** , I apologize. I thought you meant the first of those sentences starting with “what”, not the genuinely confusing second sentence which I didn’t even catch until you clarified. However, in this case the meaning is the same, whether it’s one sentence with two clauses or two seperate sentences. Dal could have been more clear there. Still, I’m not going to get bent out of shape until there’s a difficulty communicating. Someone misusing “loose” or the wrong “there” does give me pause and generally annoy me. But then again, so does the grammatically correct phrase “This is he”. ---
**Author:** ![dal\_timgar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@dal\_timgar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dal_timgar)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/49 "2001-02-02T22:27:20Z")
are you still out there? [is your handle from Podkayne of Mars by the way?] what attracted me to your thread was the “so irritating” TO ME your use of that phrase implies there is something within the person being irritated that is triggered rather than the error made by someone else being important. i’ve noticed on various sites there are people who regularly confuse THERE, THEIR & THEY’RE. i’ve seen books and magazines where AFFECT, EFFECT are wrong. i just sometimes notice it and go on. i don’t recall ever getting irritated about it. the same goes for speech. i used to correct my mother when i was about 7 and she would say “Yes, professor” and i would laugh. it was fun. only when people constantly use “bad” words, do i get irritated. i think bad words should be used with discretion and taste, otherwise they loose their shock value and the user simply shows himself to be crass. Dal Timgar ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/50 "2001-02-02T23:09:31Z")
DAL – For someone who so smugly touts his own intellect, you’re not much in the ‘irony’ department, are you? > [@](#): > > REALLY Fenris! was typing that worth the trouble? you must know i’m not even going to try to read it. Which, of course, is precisely why some of us don’t even try to read your posts – i.e., because we find that your persistent and willful ignoring of punctuation rules that are intended to and _do_ make text easier to read, means that your posts are not worth the time it takes to try read them. You just don’t have anything profound enough to say to be worth working that hard. Sorry to have to draw you a picture, but your response to FENRIS indicates he ‘wooshed’ you. I would also point out the distateful pseudo-superiority is assuming that (a) your posts are of such surpassing brilliancy that we should all be willing to work a little harder to mine the gold in them; and (b) anyone not willing to bother must be an “anal retentive pseudointellectual,” as opposed to just another human being who reasonably believes their time is better spent reading posts that aren’t so hard to wade through. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/51 "2001-02-02T23:33:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Triskadecamus \* > Or, you might be the Guardian of the Language of the Bard. But you will miss out on a lot if you make it a barrier to the wisdom of the ungrammatical. A simple soul who says: “I be happy.” has not said the same thing you would mean when you say “I am happy.” It isn’t an error, it’s a philosophical journey. Don’t miss those. Quite the opposite. An ungrammatical person who says “I be happy” **has** said the same thing as if he had said “I am happy”. It is only a person that is known for correct grammer that can say “I be happy” and communicate something different than “I am happy”. The price you pay for ignoring the rules of grammer is that no one will know when you meant to, and when you didn’t. That is what is so irritating to me about people who ignore grammer. The English language, when used correctly, is capable of expressing many different shades of meaning. Very different statements can be separated by the knife blade of word order slightly altered, or one tense substituted for another. People who misuse English dull the sharpness of this blade, until it takes the form of hammer rather than a knife. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/52 "2001-02-03T00:01:43Z")
> [@](#): > > It is only a person that is known for correct **grammer** that can say “I be happy” and communicate something different than “I am happy”. The price you pay for ignoring the rules of **grammer** is that no one will know when you meant to, and when you didn’t. That is what is so irritating to me about people who ignore **grammer**. Yeah! And let’s not even get started on people who repeatedly **mispell** simple words! ;)\* \*[sub]This post brought to you by _Gaudere’s Law_[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Brian\_Bunnyhurt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Brian\_Bunnyhurt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brian_Bunnyhurt)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/53 "2001-02-03T01:53:05Z")
For those who want to make meaningful sense: [http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/toc.htm](http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/toc.htm) And for those who like the Latinized terms: [http://www.locksley.com/6696/logic.htm](http://www.locksley.com/6696/logic.htm) And in case anyone needs it all explained: > **[Fallacies - Nizkor](https://www.nizkor.org/fallacies/)** > > Matteo Dell’Amico provides this feature in Italian Index Ad Hominem \[page not ready\] Ad Hominem Tu Quoque \[page not ready\] Appeal to Authority \[page not ready\] Appeal to Belief \[page not ready\] Appeal to Common Practice \[page not ready\] Appeal... ---
**Author:** ![brad\_d](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@brad\_d](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brad_d)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/54 "2001-02-03T02:14:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brian Bunnyhurt \* > \*\*And for those who like the Latinized terms: > \*\* The term _non sequitur_ comes to mind… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/55 "2001-02-03T03:41:29Z")
I thought my ears were burning 🙂 I noticed a lot of discussion about capitalization in this thread, you all might be interested in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=56329) thread of **racerx** ’s on the subject. Anyway, what made me sad about the other thread (Irritating Words and Word Usage) was how many Dopers were conflating what they considered errors made out of laziness or stupidity with standard features of various non-Standard English dialects. My visceral reaction to this, as **Podkayne** so nicely puts it, is to be shocked and sad at how superficial people can be about judging someone’s intelligence based on how they speak or write instead of on what they say. You’re spreading linguistic ignorance, people. Most of the complaints I read in that thread are some way tired shit. Excuse my French. But I feel like I’m slogging through the forwarded mails my sister sends me about Disneyworld and gangster initiations involving headlights here. It’s vs. its? You’re vs. your? Further vs. farther? Disapproving of making verbs from nouns? Latinate plurals? Ragging on valley-speak? Like, could you be any more boring, unoriginal or pedantic with your complaints? Come _on_. This stuff doesn’t bother you because it’s truly annoying, it bothers you because somewhere you learned that smart people are supposed to be bothered by this stuff, and you want to look smart. Personally, I just can’t understand your reaction. When I hear someone doing something I don’t do with the language, it makes me curious. I want to know what they mean, so I can appreciate the nuance of the usage. It’s pretty hateful, not mention arrogant, to assume than any English usage you hear and then can’t find in your English textbook is _wrong_ or _bad_ or _grating_. Some questions for you: Why do Americans think regional British and Irish dialects are charming and interesting, yet scorn the regional dialects of their own country (except their own, of course)? Is it because there’s a strong social discrimination motive at work here masquerading as concern for the English language? If you value your adherence to the norms of your own English dialect as a symbol of your pride in your identity, and the worthiness and achievements of your culture, how do you think speakers of other dialects feel when you make fun of them for adhering to theirs, imply that it is inferior to yours, or actively try to wipe it out? Do you have the same scorn for people who cannot draw realistic images that you do for people whose writing abilities are not up to your standards? If not, why not? Both are about as useful for determining a person’s intelligence. Have you ever listened to a recording of yourself in conversation where you did not know you were being taped? Your own speech routinely contains dozens of grammatical and pronunciation errors that you do not notice. Other humans, using their natural language processing instincts, also ignore these errors and concentrate on the content of your speech instead. If you’re getting hung up on the errors, doesn’t that imply there’s something wrong with _you_, not them? > [@](#): > > **Podkayne** : Any language needs some conservative users to enforce standards, arbitary as they may be, to prevent the tongue from becoming unintelligible. If you were being serious, cite please? Showing the histories of languages where standards were not sufficiently enforced and the language subsequently broke down into unintelligible babble? If you want me to respect your mastery of the English language as a sign of your intelligence, you will learn the grammar, lexicon and accent of at least three of its various dialects, and show your respect and courtesy for other English speakers by responding to them in the dialect they speak to you. I mean, children in other parts of the world routinely learn three or four different _languages_ for day-to-day use and you can’t even be bothered to master a few non-Standard dialects of English? -fh ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/56 "2001-02-03T05:43:52Z")
_If you were being serious, cite please? Showing the histories of languages where standards were not sufficiently enforced and the language subsequently broke down into unintelligible babble?_ Well, English for one: an insufficiently formally codified language that therefore changed comparatively rapidly, causing successive versions of the language to become mutually unintelligible “babble”. What speaker of modern English today can understand Old English (without studying it separately)? And lots of us couldn’t even make our way confidently through Middle English. And that’s a relatively short period of linguistic evolution—what, 1200, 1300 years? Compare Classical Arabic, which has remained basically linguistically unified for about 1500 years, or Latin for about 2000, or Classical Sanskrit for about 2500—and why? Because they were codified by important textual exemplars and strict grammatical rules. Yes indeed, grammatical fussbudgets **do** retard linguistic change and prolong the comprehensibility of a given stage of a language. And for that, those of us who have to read languages over a long historical period are profoundly grateful to them. Now I’m not saying that a language that changes more rapidly and has less grammatical rigor is intrinsically “inferior” in any way. But it certainly does tend to become “unintelligible babble”: not unintelligible to current speakers of course, but to those of a few centuries earlier or later. ---
**Author:** ![Fatwater\_Fewl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@Fatwater\_Fewl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fatwater_Fewl)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/57 "2001-02-03T09:09:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hazel-rah \* > \*\* > snip… > > You’re spreading linguistic ignorance, people. Most of the complaints I read in that thread are some way tired shit. Excuse my French. But I feel like I’m slogging through the forwarded mails my sister sends me about Disneyworld and gangster initiations involving headlights here. > > It’s vs. its? You’re vs. your? Further vs. farther? Disapproving of making verbs from nouns? Latinate plurals? Ragging on valley-speak? Like, could you be any more boring, unoriginal or pedantic with your complaints? Come _on_. This stuff doesn’t bother you because it’s truly annoying, it bothers you because somewhere you learned that smart people are supposed to be bothered by this stuff, and you want to look smart.\*\* This **stuff** bothers me in a forum where ideas are being discussed and debated, because it introduces uncertainity into communication. Uncertainity makes people uncomfortable. Discomfort can irritate people. Irritation can lead very quickly to shouts, blows or silence. How can you fight ignorance from any of those positions? As a quick response to the rest of your post, **hazel-rah** , I’ll just say that here, in Canada, people from Newfoundland often have fun poked at them because of the way they speak the English language. _But_ the island of NFLD is a wonderful repository of dialects. The richness of phrasing, and resulting pithiness of wit and precision of imagery is unequalled in the rest of the country. “Limp as a boiled snot” is one of my favorites; it’s used to express utter exhaustion. On that note, I’ll say good night. jm ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/58 "2001-02-03T20:37:36Z")
> [@](#): > > **Kimstu** : What speaker of modern English today can understand Old English (without studying it separately)? What speaker needs to? Is your grandmother 1100 years old? Can’t find a copy of the Bible in Modern English? > [@](#): > > And lots of us couldn’t even make our way confidently through Middle English. And that’s a relatively short period of linguistic evolution—what, 1200, 1300 years? No, actually that’s a damn long time for a language, even relatively. Creoles of English can spring up within one or two generations that are totally unintelligible to Standard American English speakers. That’s less than 50 years. > [@](#): > > Compare Classical Arabic, which has remained basically linguistically unified for about 1500 years, or Latin for about 2000, or Classical Sanskrit for about 2500—and why? Why? Because nobody speaks them anymore. Dead languages don’t change because they’re dead, not from the efforts of conservative speakers. There aren’t any speakers. Classical Arabic is an unusual case. Its linguistic unity derives from the fact that all the rules are based on a few historical texts- mainly the Koran, and so it gets its highly respected status for religious reasons. However, many dialects of Arabic exist that are mutually unintelligible. If Classical Arabic worked as you claim, this would not have occured. Take Maltese, for example. Now, Latin and Classical Sanskrit. They have been used at times as formal religious languages or mediums for scientific communication, but they do not have any native speakers. So they also cannot be used in a comparison. > [@](#): > > Because they were codified by important textual exemplars and strict grammatical rules. You’ve got it backwards. The lack of controversy in the grammar of these dead languages comes from the fact that there aren’t any living speakers causing it to evolve and change. Of course your example texts adhere strictly to the rules… they are what the rules were derived from, and they are the only things the rules are needed to read! > [@](#): > > Yes indeed, grammatical fussbudgets do retard linguistic change and prolong the comprehensibility of a given stage of a language. Well, not really. Let’s see… Classical Arabic. Failed to keep Arabic dialects from forming, and now native speakers of those dialects have to also learn another form of Arabic for public speaking. Linguistic change retarded: none. Prolonged comprehensibility: success, but at a price. Latin. Linguistic change retarded? Nope, grammatical fussbudgetiness utterly failed to keep it from evolving into a whole bunch of Romance languages. Was good for talking about science for a while but we use English for that now and we could have used Klingon for it then. Also, English speakers paid a price when English grammarians became enamoured of Latin and tried to make English more like Latin, a totally stupid idea that caused hypercorrection and insecurity in millions of English speakers. Thanks, grammatical fussbudgets. Classical Sanskrit? Um, like in India? How many languages do they have per square mile in India? Like a gazillion? And what is their common language? Classical Sanskrit, no, wait… that’s for Hindu religious services… oh it’s English? Oh well. > [@](#): > > And for that, those of us who have to read languages over a long historical period are profoundly grateful to them. That group of people are insignificant linguistically. Oh, I’ll grant you it’s cool to be able to say a few phrases in what you think Old English sounded like, but it’s about as useful as memorizing Pi to 100 decimal places. You are highly regarded for your intellectual prowess, but do not get invited to parties anymore. -fh ---
**Author:** ![JubilationTCornpone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee59a6/32.png) [@JubilationTCornpone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JubilationTCornpone)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/59 "2001-02-03T21:41:18Z")
Regarding Dal’s lack of capitalization, Jodi said, > [@](#): > > \*\*I would also point out the distateful pseudo-superiority is assuming that (a) your posts are of such surpassing brilliancy that we should all be willing to work a little harder to mine the gold in them; and (b) anyone not willing to bother must be an “anal retentive pseudointellectual,” as opposed to just another human being who reasonably believes their time is better spent reading posts that aren’t so hard to wade through. \*\* What a brilliant and incisive response! I doff my chapeau to you… and I say that with all seriousness. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726/60 "2001-02-03T21:57:20Z")
Because… there ARE no “rules”. There is no “International Tribunal of English Grammar”. There are some generally agreed upon “guidelines”, some general “usages”, and then a whole slew of rules that pedantic folks like to think of as “THE LAW”. For instance- “Double negatives”- no such rule, per se. Oxford (As in the Oxford Companion to the English language) says that “double negatives” for trying to show a meaning that is “emphatically negative” is “non standard”, but that “rhetorically positive” is “standard”. Split infinitives: no such “rule”. Oxford: “has become only a matter of minor concern”. Any others? Now, missing a cap once in a while is no big deal- I often miss “I”. However, refusing to capitalize the first word of a sentence can make it hard to read. So, in general- does the “usage/rule” actually aid in understanding and reading? Or is it just being pedantic? (Note, I read that E.E.Cummings normally did ‘cap’ his name, except when it appeared as part of his poetic work- thus- “e. e. cummings” is actually incorrect, unless you are quoting a poem by him. Of course, a poem, being a work of art, does not have to follow any of the normal limitations placed upon more mundane works. I do not “buy into” the idea that celebrities, etc, can force others to their form of usage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bad-grammar-so-irritating/52726.md?page=4)