# Why is baseball considered the "thinking man's sport"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 19, 2016, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492 "2016-03-19T05:35:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/101 "2016-04-01T23:07:17Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > Interesting that\*\* Hari Seldon\*\*, having asked to be enlightened hasn’t returned to the thread, How do you know that? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/102 "2016-04-02T00:10:46Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > How do you know that? It is a fair assumption. It is good form that if you ask a question and have it answered that you at the very least acknowledge it. i’m sure if he’d been back he’d have said ta! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/103 "2016-04-02T00:57:34Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > It is a fair assumption. It is good form that if you ask a question and have it answered that you at the very least acknowledge it. i’m sure if he’d been back he’d have said ta! Maybe not. Maybe you’ve answered his questions so thoroughly he’s gobsmacked. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/104 "2016-04-02T01:02:30Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > mm…I still want to coach a soccer team that tries to adopt a more basketball mind-set. You’ve got a possesion. Don’t just throw the ball up for grabs. Work the ball up for a shot. Even a low pct. shot is better than no shot. That’s not to say don’t make long passes on through balls, but don’t just kick it up for grabs. > > That’s not even getting into seeing a team each lose possesion four times each in 30 seconds. Collect yourself. Collect your possesion. Calm down. Work the ball up. > > Indoors…get all five guys in the opposing third before shooting. Don’t just scream GO!!! and try a breakaway every damn time. Soccer teams generally don’t just hoof the ball up the field and hope for the best. When’s the last time you watched a professional soccer match? ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/105 "2016-04-02T02:13:25Z")
Baseball was once a thinking mans sport. Then came the designated hitter. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/106 "2016-04-11T00:51:19Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Soccer teams generally don’t just hoof the ball up the field and hope for the best. When’s the last time you watched a professional soccer match? Today. Happens everytime someone takes a long goal kick. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/107 "2016-04-11T00:54:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > To give the Red Sox at least a little bit of credit, > > 1. $20 million to them is not $20 million to most teams, > 2. They needed a starting pitcher pretty bad, and > 3. Porcello was an unusual free agent in that he was very young when he signed. > > So they were getting a guy coming off what looked like a breakout year - 4.0 WAR from a 25-year old is nothing to sneeze at - at a price that for Boston was a reasonably affordable risk. Porcello then went a bit sideways, but I don’t know how that could have been predicted from the stats. 25-year-olds who pitch pretty well will generally continue to pitch pretty well, if not better, and he didn’t. I don’t know why. If what **Dale Sams** says is accurate about the coaching staff telling Porcello not to throw the sinker as much, it might have just been coaching stupidity. > > I mean, if they put me in charge of the Blue Jays and Boston came to me and offered me Porcello is exchange for Marco Estrada or JA Happ, or hell, both, I’d take them up on it in a heartbeat. I’m not saying Porcello is Walter Johnson, but he’s still young, healthy, and probably a better pitcher than 2015 would suggest. He’d be a pitcher who puts the ball in play a lot going from a team that had some pretty questionable defense to a team with rather excellent defense - an advantage that is greater for such a pitcher than it is for a strikeout artist. There are no guarantees in life but that’s a chance I’d take in a New York minute. > > Now, for a different team it’d be a different story. The Cleveland Indians would be insane to acquire Porcello; they don’t have Red Sox money, and they already have a bunch of good young starters, so the risk/reward is a totally different equation for them. You STILL want to give me Estrada for Porcello? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/108 "2016-04-11T03:17:30Z")
I admit Estrada was sensational today. I will be happy to be proven wrong. I thought Porcello was fine on Saturday though. Yup. I’d make the trade. I think long term. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/109 "2016-04-11T13:34:25Z")
But if Porcello was a Blue Jay, Jose Bautista’s home run total would plummet. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/111 "2016-04-12T17:42:37Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I believe it was Bucky Katt - in _Get Fuzzy_ - who commented that, in baseball, you can drift off in front of the TV, wake up an hour later, and nothing has changed. How is that different than soccer? I think labor disputes and the resulting strikes and lockouts really killed baseball. It all happened at a time when Michael Jordan was making basketball the nation’s favorite sport. It shattered a lot of illusions for me. Its not that baseball was ever sacred but for me concepts like “love of the game” and “good sportsmanship” come from baseball. I used to feel that baseball built character and teamwork in a way that other spots did not but after the labor disputes caused half a dozen strikes/lockouts in 20 years, it was hard to pretend that baseball was about much more than money. If that was the case, I might as well watch something more exciting like football. I feel like baseball more than any of the other major sports is skills based. Almost every position is skill based. A great athlete still has a great advantage but a small guy with good mechanics and technique can still hit a line drive through a gap or throw a ball from anywhere in the infield to anywhere else in the infield. Running a double play doesn’t require great athletic ability. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/112 "2016-04-12T19:45:19Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How is that different than soccer? > > I think labor disputes and the resulting strikes and lockouts really killed baseball. It all happened at a time when Michael Jordan was making basketball the nation’s favorite sport. What nation are you referring to? Basketball isn’t the USA’s favorite sport by any measure, nor is it more popular than baseball. The most popular spectator sport in America is football, at least if one goes by revenue, which is a pretty good way of averaging out all the variables of attendance, TV viewership, etc. MLB is the second most popular league of any kind by revenue (it’s first in total attendance, but, IMHO, a bad way of measuring baseball versus football.) The NBA is well behind MLB, by a very wide margin. To my admitted surprise, even if you counted all the revenue for college basketball, basketball still does not catch MLB. I mean, your feeling about baseball are yours, but the idea the strike “killed baseball” is rather dramatically at odds with baseball’s high attendance and revenue figures. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/113 "2016-04-12T20:02:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Running a double play doesn’t require great athletic ability. You need to watch the highlight reels/plays of the week. Maybe the easy grounder to 2nd/short type doesn’t but you need to see what it takes to pull off some of the “what the hell did I just see?” plays. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/114 "2016-04-12T21:13:19Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How is that different than soccer?. huh? you can’t leave soccer alone for a minute. The whole appeal is that a goal takes only a few seconds to score…potentially from nothing. There is a tale, possibly apocryphal, of a Man. United fan listening to the 1999 European cup final on the radio. The clock reaches the 89th minute, Man U. are 1-0 down to Bayern as he drives into the Blackwall tunnel. 2 minutes of radio silence later he emerges from the tunnel to hear that Man U. are now 2-1 in the lead as the final whistle is blown. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/115 "2016-04-13T17:03:09Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > What nation are you referring to? Basketball isn’t the USA’s favorite sport by any measure, nor is it more popular than baseball. Not when Jordan was playing. > [@](#): > > The most popular spectator sport in America is football, at least if one goes by revenue, which is a pretty good way of averaging out all the variables of attendance, TV viewership, etc. MLB is the second most popular league of any kind by revenue (it’s first in total attendance, but, IMHO, a bad way of measuring baseball versus football.) The NBA is well behind MLB, by a very wide margin. Not when Jordan was playing. > [@](#): > > To my admitted surprise, even if you counted all the revenue for college basketball, basketball still does not catch MLB. > > I mean, your feeling about baseball are yours, but the idea the strike “killed baseball” is rather dramatically at odds with baseball’s high attendance and revenue figures. Am I the only one that thinks that baseball declined for decades after the strikes? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/116 "2016-04-13T17:08:58Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > huh? you can’t leave soccer alone for a minute. The whole appeal is that a goal takes only a few seconds to score…potentially from nothing. > > There is a tale, possibly apocryphal, of a Man. United fan listening to the 1999 European cup final on the radio. The clock reaches the 89th minute, Man U. are 1-0 down to Bayern as he drives into the Blackwall tunnel. 2 minutes of radio silence later he emerges from the tunnel to hear that Man U. are now 2-1 in the lead as the final whistle is blown. I’ve walked away from plenty of soccer games for a hour and come back to the same score. I cant think of many baseball games where this is true. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/117 "2016-04-13T19:53:19Z")
1998 is the only year that Jordan played where the NBA Finals got a higher Nielson rating than the World Series. And I seriously doubt the NBA has ever made more revenue than MLB, what with half the number of games. (Not counting 1994, obviously) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/118 "2016-04-13T19:57:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Not when Jordan was playing. When Jordan was playing the NBA was\* less\* popular as measured by attendance or revenue than it is now. If you don’t believe me, look it up. The NBA’s highest attendance season was several years after Jordan retired for good. There has never been a time, ever, when basketball even began to rival football or baseball in terms of attendance or revenue. Not before Jordan, during his career, or after. He certainly helped the NBA’s popularity but the effect of one man can be rather exaggerated. > [@](#): > > Am I the only one that thinks that baseball declined for decades after the strikes? Probably not, but then, lots of people think things that aren’t correct. It’s just math. Attendance and revenues are as high as ever. The sport is probably now more profitable than it has ever been. The only thing you can say about is that’s bad, really, is that football is more popular, but that’s been true for a very long time now. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/119 "2016-04-13T20:06:37Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’ve walked away from plenty of soccer games for a hour and come back to the same score. I cant think of many baseball games where this is true. If you are regularly walking away from a football game for an hour then your opinion can safely be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492/120 "2016-04-13T22:20:41Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’ve walked away from plenty of soccer games for a hour and come back to the same score. Given your oft-stated distain for the sport, and your stated predisposition to walk away from games within 15 minutes of the start (sidebar: how much play do you get to see in the first 15 minutes of the average NFL telecast) … why do you keep coming back? Am I the only one who senses \*\*Damuri Ajashi \*\* may actually has a deep seated affinity, possibly even a psychological need, for the sport which has too long been repressed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-baseball-considered-the-thinking-mans-sport/749492.md?page=5)