# Why is beheading considered worse than other types of killing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2004, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926 "2004-05-13T07:57:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/1 "2004-05-13T07:57:14Z")
I’m not attempting to be inflamatory here. I legitimately want to understand exactly what is it about certain types of killing and behavior regarding killing that make them worse than other types. Specifically, why is it worse for a man to be beheaded than for another man to die in a random truck bombing or shooting? The results are the same, the victim is dead, his family and friends have lost a loved one, an innocent non-combatant has fallen victim to a seriously messed up situation. Yet, certain behaviors are met with more outrage than others. Would the execution have been less offensive if the man had been shot or hung or injected with lethal poisons? Why? The result would be the same. Suppose he had been held hostage, and died slowly of disease and malnutrition over a course of weeks or months. That would seem to me to be a worse way to go than the relatively quick way this man died. Yet, I think it might not have provoked the outrage that beheading did. I don’t mean to minimize the horror of what happened here. My point is that the execution of an innocent non-combatant is terrible regardless of the method used, and that emphasizing the unusual method is just sensationalizing it, which seems to be exactly what the murderers wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/2 "2004-05-13T08:09:55Z")
I think any sort of decapitation is thought of as extremely brutal. Whether it’s a car accident, or some kind of accident in a manufacturing plant, it seems like a horrific way to die. Aren’t there ways that you might think of as a preferable way of dying? Perhaps you’d want to die in your sleep, from old age, rather than hit by a bus and dragged to death. The same goes for beheading. It doesn’t seem like it’s “over” very quickly, as opposed to a gunshot to the head, which might at least give others the perception that death is almost instantaneous (whether it really is or not). Yes, the execution of a innocent, non-combatant is terrible regardless of the method of execution. However, a terrorist’s objective is to get people riled up, and create fear; an especially brutal execution, such as a beheading, is more effective than shooting someone. It’s the same reason terrorists beheaded Daniel Pearl, to make sure the target takes notice. Most people don’t want to die, and they certainly don’t want to die in pain. I would guess they would hope for the same for their loved ones. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/3 "2004-05-13T08:22:03Z")
I think it’s a more personal way of killing. The killers have to be in close proximaty to the victim and kill with their own hands. The head is also the area of the body responsible for our personalities, who we are. Sawing off a head and holding it up like a trophy is something you’d do with a deer, to do it to a human being is extremly degrading. ---
**Author:** ![Starguard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/4 "2004-05-13T09:53:44Z")
I can remember seeing somewhere that people were actually glad when the guillotine (if that was spelled right) was created. The guillotine made head decaptation quick and easy. Just one swack and…“SHING”… all done. Before this method was used, they used to hire the old executioners ( you know, the big guys with the mask over their heads and the double sided ax). When they decapitated someones head, sometimes due to either a dull blade, or the executioner not being strong enough to do the job with a single swing, they would have to chop and whack maybe a good 4 or 5 times before the head finally came all the way off :eek: Brutal to say the least :o . ---
**Author:** ![Drizzt\_Do\_Urden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Drizzt\_Do\_Urden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drizzt_Do_Urden)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/5 "2004-05-13T10:15:03Z")
At the risk of getting flamed, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that decapitation is one of the best all around methods of execution. First, if a guillotine is used, death is all but instantanious, and practically no physical pain would be felt. Second, it is (as long as the machine is properly maintained) 100 percent effective. If we executed death row inmates be decapitation, we wouldn’t have their heads catching on fire from botched electrocutions; there is no chance of survival from the guillotine. Third, it seems, at least to me, to be a much more sane method of execution than pluging someone into an exectrical outlet and watching them fry. Just my $0.02. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/6 "2004-05-13T10:17:08Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > I can remember seeing somewhere that people were actually glad when the guillotine (if that was spelled right) was created. The guillotine made head decaptation quick and easy. Just one swack and…“SHING”… all done. Yes, and after they invented even more ‘humane’ ways to kill people. Like the gasschamber, electrocution or injection. It doesn’t make the death penalty less barbaric, it just makes it less horrible to watch. ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/7 "2004-05-13T10:42:01Z")
> [@Drizzt Do'Urden](#): > > At the risk of getting flamed, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that decapitation is one of the best all around methods of execution. First, if a guillotine is used, death is all but instantanious, and practically no physical pain would be felt. Nope, not quite true. According to the article below, the average person remains alive about 13 seconds. When I visited the touring torture exhibit here a few years back, I remember reading that it could be as long as 45 seconds. And as the article further mentions - when does awareness disappear? Must be an interesting feeling, literally losing your head. 😃 I can imagine myself saying “oh shit, shit, shit”. > [@](#): > > \*\*Does The Head Of A Guillotined Individual Remain Briefly Alive? \*\* > > Of the many stories associated with the guillotine, one theme continues to dominate, receiving comments from historians, scientists and students of urban legend: does a victim’s head remain alive, albeit for a small period of time? > > The guillotine was invented as a humane and painless method of execution, one that brought an instant death: could the inventors have been wrong? Plenty of anecdotes have been used by all sides, many of them dating from the French Revolution, one of the guillotine’s most prolific periods. Scientists who asked their students to watch and record how many times they blinked (the scientists themselves being guillotined), murderers who tried to speak, and rivals who bit each other while their heads were in a bag; all have been cited at some point. One famous tale concerns Charlotte Corday, the killer of Marat, whose cheek supposedly reddened after the executioner slapped it even though, at that point, she was just a severed head being held up to the crowd. > > The current medical consensus is that life does survive, for a period of roughly thirteen seconds, varying slightly depending on the victim’s build, health and the immediate circumstances of the decapitation. The simple act of removing a head from a body is not what kills the brain, rather, it is the lack of oxygen and other important chemicals provided in the bloodstream. To quote Dr. Ron Wright “The 13 seconds is the amount of high energy phosphates that the cytochromes in the brain have to keep going without new oxygen and glucose” (Cited from here). The precise post-execution lifespan will depend on how much oxygen, and other chemicals, were in the brain at the point of decapitation; however, eyes could certainly move and blink. > > This solely technical survival forms only part of the answer; the second question is ‘how long does the victim remain aware?’ While the brain remains chemically alive, consciousness can cease immediately, especially if the victim is knocked unconscious by the force of the decapitating blow. Conversely, an individual could remain self-aware - able to see through their eyes and understand what has happened - for much of the thirteen-second period. There is no consistency in this answer, as the precise length of both actual, and practical, survival will vary depending on the victim. Of course, this applies to many forms of swift decapitation, and not just to the victims of la guillotine. > > [Link](http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/bldyk10.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Starguard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/8 "2004-05-13T10:46:31Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Yes, and after they invented even more ‘humane’ ways to kill people. Like the gasschamber, electrocution or injection. > > It doesn’t make the death penalty less barbaric, it just makes it less horrible to watch. You know, thats sort of strange. What you say is definitely true, but at the same time, do you notice how we squeam at the very thought of seeing someone being executed regardless of the method used, but at the same time we will all flock to the movies in mass numbers, and pay good money to see the same things being acted out in Scary Horror movies :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/9 "2004-05-13T11:02:06Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > You know, thats sort of strange. What you say is definitely true, but at the same time, do you notice how we squeam at the very thought of seeing someone being executed regardless of the method used, but at the same time we will all flock to the movies in mass numbers, and pay good money to see the same things being acted out in Scary Horror movies :dubious: That’s because the movie stuff rarely looks realistic, and we know it is a movie. I’ve long thought that if movies and TV really showed what it was like to get shot or knifed (and no, I’m only going by what I’ve read), violence would be a lot less attractive to many people. Make the guy bleed all over the place, linger on the pain rather than cut away, make people get sick. They can do amazing things with CGI now, so we don’t really have to kill any of the actors. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/10 "2004-05-13T12:17:26Z")
> [@Drizzt Do'Urden](#): > > At the risk of getting flamed, \*\*I’m going to go out on a limb \*\* and say that decapitation is one of the best all around methods of execution. First, if a guillotine is used, death is all but instantanious, and practically no physical pain would be felt. Second, it is (as long as the machine is properly maintained) 100 percent effective. If we executed death row inmates be decapitation, we wouldn’t have their heads catching on fire from botched electrocutions; there is no chance of survival from the guillotine. Third, it seems, at least to me, to be a much more sane method of execution than pluging someone into an exectrical outlet and watching them fry. Just my $0.02. (Bolding mine) I know you didn’t mean for that to be funny, but I’m laughing anyway. And you beat me to what I was going to post. It is a “One Way Only” injury. There is no chance of “getting to the victim in time” and saving him, like there is with gunshot, stabbing, drowning, and a host of other ways to die. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/11 "2004-05-13T12:17:50Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > You know, thats sort of strange. What you say is definitely true, but at the same time, do you notice how we squeam at the very thought of seeing someone being executed regardless of the method used, but at the same time we will all flock to the movies in mass numbers, and pay good money to see the same things being acted out in Scary Horror movies :dubious: Yes, that is kinda odd. Maybe we like those because we know it isn’t real. Then again there is certainly also a curiousity to see the real thing, what death looks like. IMHO, the reward for seeing real life death is not that pleasant, you always wish you _hadn’t_ seen it. It is very confronting wr to your own vulnerability and fleeting existance. In movies we can safely feed the curiosity without the confronting bit, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/12 "2004-05-13T15:03:10Z")
> [@iamme99](#): > > Nope, not quite true. According to the article below, the average person remains alive about 13 seconds… Here’s Cecil’s take on the subject when confrounted with the evidence of the Antoine Lavoisier “experiment.” Lavoisier was a victim of the French Revolution, who it is claimed, agreed to blink after his beheading - [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5\_262.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_262.html) > [@](#): > > …There is no mention of the blinking incident in the standard biographies of Lavoisier. The expert quoted on the TV show, neurosurgeon Robert Fink, says he heard the story from a colleague. The colleague says he read it in a book, but can’t remember which. He admits the story may be apocryphal. > > But let’s return to the original question, appalling though it may be: Is a severed head aware of its fate? … Numerous anecdotes and bizarre experiments have been adduced as evidence on either side. After Charlotte Corday was guillotined …the executioner slapped her cheek while holding her severed head aloft. Witnesses claimed the cheeks reddened (without blood?) and the face looked indignant. According to another tale, when the heads of two rivals in the National Assembly were placed in a sack following execution, one bit the other so badly the two couldn’t be separated. > > …Then I received a note from a U.S. Army veteran who had been stationed in Korea. In June 1989 the taxi he and a friend were riding in collided with a truck. My correspondent was pinned in the wreckage. The friend was decapitated. Here’s what happened: > > _My friend’s head came to rest face up, and (from my angle) upside-down. As I watched, his mouth opened and closed no less than two times. The facial expressions he displayed were first of shock or confusion, followed by terror or grief. I cannot exaggerate and say that he was looking all around, but he did display ocular movement in that his eyes moved from me, to his body, and back to me. He had direct eye contact with me when his eyes took on a hazy, absent expression . . . and he was dead._ > > I have spoken with the author and am satisfied that the event occurred as described. One can of course never be certain about these things. Nonetheless I repent my previous skepticism. > > –CECIL ADAMS ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/13 "2004-05-13T19:59:44Z")
Beheading is associated with the “old way” of executing people. It’s associated with medieval executions and barbarians. It is mainly a social stigma, as far as violence/pain, there are many ways that are more painful to die than beheading. Although as another poster already mentioned, in the middle ages beheadings often took far more than one swing of the axe. Interesting little anectdotal, when Henry VIII had Anne Boleyn executed he hired a professional swordsman from Spain who was a considered a master at the blade. Mainly because he was certain he could sever her head in one fell swoop, and he did. Henry wanted to make sure she didn’t die in the same manner as common peasants. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/14 "2004-05-13T20:09:39Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Interesting little anectdotal, when Henry VIII had Anne Boleyn executed he hired a professional swordsman from Spain who was a considered a master at the blade. Mainly because he was certain he could sever her head in one fell swoop, and he did. > > Henry wanted to make sure she didn’t die in the same manner as common peasants. Except the killers of Nick Berg didn’t afford him such a luxory. They hacked away at him for a decidedly uncomfortable amount of time. ---
**Author:** ![Senggum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@Senggum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senggum)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/15 "2004-05-13T20:29:41Z")
> [@Number Six](#): > > … Specifically, why is it worse for a man to be beheaded than for another man to die in a random truck bombing or shooting?.. My nightmares are of being scalped alive … ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/16 "2004-05-13T20:43:36Z")
Isn’t it considered more brutal because the act is not only one of killing, but also of desecration of the corpse? Seems like the simplest answer to me. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/17 "2004-05-13T21:47:42Z")
I think it’s also the indignity of it. A man’s brain account for all the decisions that he has made, including those that led to his beheading. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/18 "2004-05-13T23:02:24Z")
> [@](#): > > At the risk of getting flamed, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that decapitation is one of the best all around methods of execution. First, if a guillotine is used, death is all but instantanious, and practically no physical pain would be felt. You may have a point, but assuming this question was inspired by the murder of Nick Berg, none of the above apply. He wasn’t guillotined; in the words of the NY Times, his head was “sawed off” while he lay on the floor. There’s definitely something dehumanizing about chopping off a head in that way. It’s a somewhat prolonged method of death that had to involve some pain, probably horrific pain if he wasn’t doped up. It’s just gross on a visceral level. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/19 "2004-05-13T23:19:42Z")
Thanks for the replies and for keeping the discussion civil. I suppose I understand a bit better why people seem to be reacting the way they are. I do think that the media coverage created the reaction almost as much as the act itself. I don’t mean to say that we should blame the media, just that by choosing to focus so much attention on this one story, its importance has been magnified beyond that of other killings in Iraq, which seems to have been the desire of the people doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926/20 "2004-05-13T23:23:47Z")
How exactly else is the media going to cover a story like this? He was killed in this way to produce shock and horror, and there’s really no other possible reaction. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-beheading-considered-worse-than-other-types-of-killing/244926.md?page=2)