# Why is Boxing dominated by Black men? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 12, 2017, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402 "2017-08-12T02:54:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/21 "2017-08-13T02:27:34Z")
To be clear, I didn’t mean that this particular thread was motivated by racism, or was going to go in racist directions. I was simply observing that that’s often the direction that discussions like this one go in. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/22 "2017-08-13T02:50:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yup, there was a time why people wondered why Jews were so dominant in sports, especially in brutal sports like boxing. And then, as now, the speculation often went in bigoted directions. > [@asahi](#): > > I honestly don’t see this as an inherently bigoted question; it’s a matter of noticing patterns and being curious about them - like wondering why Kenyans dominate marathon running (I don’t know if they still do) or why Soviets (Eurasians and Eastern Europeans) used to dominate wrestling. > > I’m not a sports scientist obviously but my observation is that from time to time sports can be dominated by particular groups because of social and economic factors. Last I looked, though, black fighters no longer dominate the sport the way they once did. But in the 1970s and 80s, they arguably were dominant in the heavier weight classes. African Americans probably got into boxing because it was an opportunity and there were boxing gyms in the neighborhood. It didn’t require a lot of money to take it up as a hobby. > > By contrast, in MMA, white competitors were dominant in the US most likely for related reasons. There were more white athletes in college wrestling programs and more white suburban kids taking up karate and tae kwon do (and then later Brazilian jiu jutsu in the 1990s and 2000s). And just as black athletes are no longer quite so dominant in boxing, opening it to people of more diverse backgrounds, black athletes are starting to more frequently become champions or elite competitors in MMA. Now you’ve got fighters like Jon Jones and Daniel Cormier are the two light heavyweight champs, and don’t be surprised to see Jones take a shot at the heavyweight shot. Meanwhile Tyron Woodly and Demetrious Johnson are two champs in lower weight classes. And a number of other black athletes have been competitive as well. MMA’s no longer a sport for wrestlers from the heartland and suburban thrill seeking bad asses from Southern California. I agree with both of these posts. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/23 "2017-08-13T02:58:27Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It appears that you’re the one that is jumping to conclusions. I believe that’s dominated by middle aged white men. ---
**Author:** ![CrimeThink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90db22/32.png) [@CrimeThink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrimeThink)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/24 "2017-08-18T15:26:22Z")
Cite? I’ve heard specifically that white men can’t jump. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/25 "2017-08-18T17:19:33Z")
> [@CrimeThink](#): > > Cite? I’ve heard specifically that white men can’t jump. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/42WNHGr1jGI/maxresdefault.jpg "Jump to Conclusions Mat on Office Space") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42WNHGr1jGI) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/26 "2017-08-18T17:51:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It appears that you’re the one that is jumping to conclusions. Fosbury, is that you? ---
**Author:** ![fjs1fs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9e8a1a/32.png) [@fjs1fs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fjs1fs)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2017, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/27 "2017-09-06T13:09:05Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > [Here’s a list of the 2016 Olympic boxing medalists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics) > > Pretty diverse group of countries and ethnic backgrounds Looking at that list, we should start a threat on how/why Uzbekistan produces so many great boxers! ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2017, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/28 "2017-09-06T13:53:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yup, there was a time why people wondered why Jews were so dominant in sports, especially in brutal sports like boxing. I highly doubt if this is true (for a meaningful number of “people”). There was never a time when Jews were “_so dominant in sports, especially in brutal sports like boxing_”, so it’s unlikely that many people would have wondered why that was so. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/29 "2017-09-06T16:58:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Due to being disproportionately poor and trapped in ghettos, blacks are more likely to become involved in sports that don’t require expensive facilities they don’t have access too. So, they end up in sports like boxing and basketball instead of swimming since they have access to basketball hoops & fists, but not large swimming pools. > > As said, economics. Or as I told a black drinking buddy, “I could so kick your ass in Marco Polo”. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/30 "2017-09-06T17:56:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I highly doubt if this is true (for a meaningful number of “people”). There was never a time when Jews were “_so dominant in sports, especially in brutal sports like boxing_”, so it’s unlikely that many people would have wondered why that was so. Read a book sometime. Specially, this one: [When Jewish Boxers Were Lords of the Ring](http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/books/.premium-1.719982). > [@](#): > > Silver, however, points out that from 1901 until 1939 about one in seven world champion fighters were Jewish. Consistently over that period, Jews made up a double-digit representation of all professional fighters, along with the Irish and Italians. Jews also formed a considerable part of the crowds who attended boxing events. Or this one: [When Boxing Was a Jewish Sport](http://www.sunypress.edu/p-5161-when-boxing-was-a-jewish-sport.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/31 "2017-09-06T18:25:49Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Read a book sometime. Specially, this one: [When Jewish Boxers Were Lords of the Ring](http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/books/.premium-1.719982). > > Or this one: [When Boxing Was a Jewish Sport](http://www.sunypress.edu/p-5161-when-boxing-was-a-jewish-sport.aspx) Learn some math. Even assuming those numbers are true, one in seven is not remotely close to dominating the sport. [FWIW, I doubt if the numbers are accurate altogether. There’s a tendency in books of that sort to stretch the definition of Jewish. For example, Max Baer was not Jewish by any reasonable definition, but he tends to get counted, e.g. [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_American_sportspeople#Boxing).] ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/32 "2017-09-06T18:32:23Z")
I think we’re far enough into the thread that it’s worth quoting The Naked Gun: > [@](#): > > Lt. Frank Drebin: Hector Savage. From Detroit. Ex-boxer. His real name was Joey Chicago. > > Ed Hocken: Oh, yeah. He fought under the name of Kid Minneapolis. > > Nordberg: I saw Kid Minneapolis fight once. In Cincinnati. > > Lt. Frank Drebin: No you’re thinking of Kid New York. He fought out of Philly. > > Ed Hocken: He was killed in the ring in Houston. By Tex Colorado. You know, the Arizona Assassin. > > Nordberg: Yeah, from Dakota. I don’t remember it was North or South. > > Lt. Frank Drebin: North. South Dakota was his brother. From West Virginia. > > Ed Hocken: You sure know your boxing. > > Lt. Frank Drebin: All I know is never bet on the white guy. > > [Nordberg nods in agreement] ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/33 "2017-09-06T19:27:28Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Learn some math. Even assuming those numbers are true, one in seven is not remotely close to dominating the sport. > > [FWIW, I doubt if the numbers are accurate altogether. There’s a tendency in books of that sort to stretch the definition of Jewish. For example, Max Baer was not Jewish by any reasonable definition, but he tends to get counted, e.g. [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_American_sportspeople#Boxing).] No problem. As long as everybody else understands you’re wrong, I’m cool with it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/34 "2017-09-06T19:37:19Z")
One in seven is pretty dominant, when you’re talking about a 1% demographic. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/35 "2017-09-06T19:52:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > One in seven is pretty dominant, when you’re talking about a 1% demographic. 1% of what? At the time we’re discussing, Jews were about 4% of the US, and heavily concentrated in urban areas which probably produced much more than their fair share of boxers. And again, I’m skeptical of the one in seven number for reasons given. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jews had more than their fair share of boxers for the same reason they had more than their fair share of mobsters at that time. They were concentrated in poverty-stricken urban ghettoes, which tend to produce those types. But disproportionate representation is not nearly the same thing as dominance. Black representation in boxing from the 60s to the 80s (especially at the heavier divisions) was dominance. Jewish in that earlier time was probably somewhat disproportionate. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/36 "2017-09-22T12:45:45Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But disproportionate representation is not nearly the same thing as dominance. Black representation in boxing from the 60s to the 80s (especially at the heavier divisions) was dominance. I think there is a bit of truth here. To non boxing people (like myself) the heavyweight champion tends to get a lot more headlines, and in my memory on it does seem to have been dominated by people such as Sonny Liston, through Muhammeed Ali to Mike Tyson. After that interest was not there- or less there. Guess I’m saying is the bigger headlines get the most attention unless you closely follow the sport. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/37 "2017-09-22T19:00:38Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I think we’re far enough into the thread that it’s worth quoting The Naked Gun: So awesome. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/38 "2017-09-23T04:51:42Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Or as I told a black drinking buddy, “I could so kick your ass in Marco Polo”. Bwahahahahahahahahaha. I’m cyin’ here. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2017, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402/39 "2017-09-23T06:24:26Z")
Perhaps some sort of “jump to conclusions mat” would be helpful to these discussions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-boxing-dominated-by-black-men/793402.md?page=1)