# Why is bribery illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765 "2014-04-09T23:59:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/1 "2014-04-09T23:59:15Z")
SCOTUS has ruled that spending money to buy a congressman is just expressing your right to freedom of speech. Given that, how can bribery possibly be illegal? After all, trying to talk someone into doing something is illegal and now money = speech. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/2 "2014-04-10T00:52:24Z")
Your first sentence and last sentence are each doing weird things with my brain. Could you explicate them a bit less … concisely? (Sorry I’m the only one who has replied so far. I may possibly be invisible.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/3 "2014-04-10T00:56:29Z")
Personally, I think the court got it wrong back in 1976 with Buckley v. Valeo. I don’t think money should be regarded as a form of speech and be protected by the First Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/4 "2014-04-10T01:07:13Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > SCOTUS has ruled that spending money to buy a congressman is just expressing your right to freedom of speech. Given that, how can bribery possibly be illegal? After all, trying to talk someone into doing something is illegal and now money = speech. The court said that there should be no limit for campaign contributions. That isn’t money that goes into the candidates personal account. There are rules and regulations on how it may be spent. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/5 "2014-04-10T01:11:36Z")
Okay, I can see what the first sentence is referring to now. How about what this is pointing to? : > [@](#): > > After all, trying to talk someone into doing something is illegal and now money = speech. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/6 "2014-04-10T01:26:27Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > After all, trying to talk someone into doing something is illegal and now money = speech. I’m thinking the word “not” got left out of this sentence: “trying to talk someone into doing something is not illegal”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/7 "2014-04-10T02:09:02Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > SCOTUS has ruled that spending money to buy a congressman is just expressing your right to freedom of speech. Given that, how can bribery possibly be illegal? After all, trying to talk someone into doing something is illegal and now money = speech. I am guessing you have not actually read the decision? The decision specifically leaves individual limits in place – you still can’t give unlimited money to a single candidate. The limits on the number of different candidates you can support with the maximum donation of ~ $2K have been removed. And the reason the individual limits were left in place was that the Court agreed that the kind of quid-pro-quo that bribery represents is properly the subject of government regulation. > [@](#): > > This Court has identified only one legitimate governmental interest for restricting campaign finances: preventing corruption or the appearance of corruption. . . . Moreover, the only type of corruption that Congress may target is quid pro quo corruption. Spending large sums of money in connection with elections, but not in connection with an effort to control the exercise of an officeholder’s official duties, does not give rise to quid pro quo corruption. That directly answers your question, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/8 "2014-04-10T02:32:30Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > I’m thinking the word “not” got left out of this sentence: “trying to talk someone into doing something is not illegal”. Word left out. Word left out! Smacks forehead! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/9 "2014-04-10T02:43:46Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > SCOTUS has ruled that spending money to buy a congressman is just expressing your right to freedom of speech. Given that, how can bribery possibly be illegal? After all, trying to talk someone into doing something is illegal and now money = speech. “Money = speech” is a strawman, pure and simple. ---
**Author:** ![randompattern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@randompattern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randompattern)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/10 "2014-04-10T02:48:51Z")
To me it still boils down to, the more money you have the more influence you can buy. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/11 "2014-04-10T03:10:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I am guessing you have not actually read the decision? > > The decision specifically leaves individual limits in place – you still can’t give unlimited money to a single candidate. The limits on the number of different candidates you can support with the maximum donation of ~ $2K have been removed. > > And the reason the individual limits were left in place was that the Court agreed that the kind of quid-pro-quo that bribery represents is properly the subject of government regulation. But how is that justified? If campaign donations are a form of speech, why allow any limits at all? It’s like the argument that the Second Amendment allows people to own handguns but not assault rifles. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/12 "2014-04-10T04:04:47Z")
So I guess the next question is how much do I have to spend to make bribery legal? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/13 "2014-04-10T09:08:32Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > SCOTUS has ruled that spending money to buy a congressman is just expressing your right to freedom of speech. Given that, how can bribery possibly be illegal? Because they haven’t gotten around yet to striking down older laws that forbid it. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/14 "2014-04-10T09:57:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But how is that justified? If campaign donations are a form of speech, why allow any limits at all? It’s like the argument that the Second Amendment allows people to own handguns but not assault rifles. You can’t shout fire in a crowded theater; you can’t exceed contribution limits to a single candidate. It’s very straightforward. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/15 "2014-04-10T16:11:44Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > I’m thinking the word “not” got left out of this sentence: “trying to talk someone into doing something is not illegal”. Quite right–sorry. The court has ruled that money = speech. And I see no reason you cannot just put the money in his pocket. The meme is now that power is used to get money and money is used to get power and it sounds like bribery to me, pure and simple. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/16 "2014-04-10T18:42:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But how is that justified? If campaign donations are a form of speech, why allow any limits at all? It’s like the argument that the Second Amendment allows people to own handguns but not assault rifles. “Let’s make an agreement to work together to kill your spouse and spit the insurance proceeds; we’ll make it look like an accident.” That’s speech. But it’s also illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/17 "2014-04-10T18:44:16Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Quite right–sorry. The court has ruled that money = speech. And I see no reason you cannot just put the money in his pocket. The meme is now that power is used to get money and money is used to get power and it sounds like bribery to me, pure and simple. I notice you did not respond to my post. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-bribery-illegal/685765/18 "2014-04-10T22:16:34Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Quite right–sorry. The court has ruled that money = speech. When did they do that? Cite the Supreme Court opinion that you think says “money = speech”.