# Why is British House of Commons debate so different from US House? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 3, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234 "2008-07-03T21:51:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/21 "2008-07-09T05:21:38Z")
[QUOTE=Usram] A lot of those also apply in the British parliament, certainly the “liar” thing. Do you also have the convention that the upper house is not to be referred to by name? Here, the two houses refer to each other as “the other place” or “another place”. [/QUOTE] Yup. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/22 "2008-07-09T06:56:20Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] One difference is that the House of Commons chooses the head of government, so it’s not just a legislature but a kind of electoral college too. That means that the prime minister and the cabinet have to continually prove themselves in from of the Commons, and there’s an alternate PM and cabinet facing them in the debates. [/QUOTE] The House of Commons does not choose the head of government. The leader of the party that has the most number of seats in Parliament is [generally] invited by the Crown to form a government, and thus become Prime Minister. It is rare for Members of Parliament to break ranks on votes, so the Prime Minister rarely worries much about how his own party will vote. Therefore, if the PM’s party has a majority government (i.e. more than 50% of the seats in Parliament), his job is basically safe until the next election. There are of course exceptions, but that’s the general course of things. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/23 "2008-07-09T13:25:33Z")
[QUOTE=Cerowyn] The House of Commons does not choose the head of government. [/QUOTE] Strictly speaking, that is correct, but the PM must be able to win a confidence vote in the House of Commons. If the sovereign chose a PM who was not supported by a majority, then as soon as the Commons next met, the leader of the opposition (or another opposition party leader) would move a vote of no confidence. If that were passed, the PM would be required to resign or call an election. In addition, at a general election, most voters vote according to the party that a candidate belongs to. So, at the next election, if you want Gordon Brown to continue as PM, you would vote for the Labour candidate. That’s much the same as voters in the US voting indirectly for a slate of electors of the real candidate that they prefer, regardless of the personal qualities of those electors. In a parliamentary system, MPs do a lot more than presidential electors do in the US, but in practice the most important reason for people to vote for them is what party they belong to, and hence who they will support as PM. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/24 "2008-07-09T13:45:46Z")
As in the Canadian example noted above, Parliamentary Privilege does have its limits and members can be censured for a ‘breach of privilege’ by the Standards & Privileges Committee. Members must not read from a prepared text, but can ‘refer to notes’ (sometimes there is no difference. Senior figures have more latitude in that respect). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/25 "2008-07-09T13:54:44Z")
This is probably apocryphal - it’s attributed to Benjamin Disraeli - The Speaker asked him to withdraw his statement that half the cabinet were asses, so he said “Mr. Speaker, I withdraw my statement that half the cabinet are asses. _Half the cabinet are not asses._” ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/26 "2008-07-09T14:00:47Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] This is probably apocryphal - it’s attributed to Benjamin Disraeli - The Speaker asked him to withdraw his statement that half the cabinet were asses, so he said “Mr. Speaker, I withdraw my statement that half the cabinet are asses. _Half the cabinet are not asses._” [/QUOTE] The way I heard it, an MP withdrew a comment that another had the brains of a sheep, and said, “The honorable member does not have the brains of a sheep.” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/27 "2008-07-09T14:15:23Z")
I think the idea has been told and retold many times, in many variations. I doubt there is a singular instance of it happening and being both genuine and original - it might well have appeared in real life, but as a scripted setup subsequent to it entering the collective consciousness, though. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/28 "2008-07-09T14:24:31Z")
> [@](#): > > call another member a liar or say that they are lying What happens if that member is lying? How are you supposed to point that out? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/29 "2008-07-09T14:33:40Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] What happens if that member is lying? How are you supposed to point that out? [/QUOTE] Address the factuality of the statement, I suppose. A bit like here on the boards. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/30 "2008-07-09T14:43:15Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] What happens if that member is lying? How are you supposed to point that out? [/QUOTE] Speculate that the Honorouble Member is, perhaps, being a little economical with the actualité? ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/31 "2008-07-09T14:48:41Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] In addition, at a general election, most voters vote according to the party that a candidate belongs to. So, at the next election, if you want Gordon Brown to continue as PM, you would vote for the Labour candidate. That’s much the same as voters in the US voting indirectly for a slate of electors of the real candidate that they prefer, regardless of the personal qualities of those electors. In a parliamentary system, MPs do a lot more than presidential electors do in the US, but in practice the most important reason for people to vote for them is what party they belong to, and hence who they will support as PM. [/QUOTE] And it’s an absolutely ridiculous system as well. Under first past the post the government in power only has to have the majority of MPs, but being elected an MP doesn’t mean you have to have the majority of votes in a constituency (and they rarely do as the votes are distributed between 3 or more parties). It’s quite common for a government to be in power with only about a third of the popular vote. It’s also fairly stupid that the electorate has no direct influence over who is head of the government they elect, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/32 "2008-07-09T15:16:32Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] Speculate that the Honorouble Member is, perhaps, being a little economical with the actualité? [/QUOTE] I believe the phrase “terminological inexactitude” is what we’re after here 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/33 "2008-07-09T16:08:51Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Home sick one day, years ago, I stumbled upon C-span and watched, open-mouthed, while Senator Brownback from KS (?) spoke at great length and completely pointlessly on the merits of St Valentine’s Day. Our tax dollars at work… [/QUOTE] I’ve found that when saying “Senator Brownback spoke” adding “completely pointlessly” is redundant. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/34 "2008-07-09T16:21:07Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Address the factuality of the statement, I suppose. A bit like here on the boards. [/QUOTE] Exactly. If a member wishes to dispute the claims of another, he or she must act as if the member is mistaken or misinformed, not as if they’re telling baldfaced lies. Even if they are. In fact, MPs rarely do tell outright lies (to the House, at least) since doing so is a serious breach of House rules. I seem to recall an incident about 20 years ago where one member (perhaps Neil Kinnock, I don’t know) said something along the lines of “I know the Honourable Member said blahblahblah, but frankly, I don’t believe him.” The Speaker decided this was not the same as calling the member a liar. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/35 "2008-07-09T16:22:31Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] What happens if that member is lying? How are you supposed to point that out? [/QUOTE] It’s perfectly okay to say that such and such a statement is false. In Canada I don’t think they’ve brightlined how far you can go (can you say “this is false and the hon. member knows it”? can you say “the hon. member is misleading Canadians?” etc.) but you can’t come right out and say that they are lying. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/36 "2008-07-09T16:39:14Z")
[QUOTE=Usram] Do you also have the convention that the upper house is not to be referred to by name? Here, the two houses refer to each other as “the other place” or “another place”. [/QUOTE] We used to have this in the United States (“the other body”), but modern-day members seem to have gotten away from the practice. Possibly it’s the influence of television, as members want to be intelligible to the C-SPAN junkies at home. Or maybe it’s just that the kids today have no respect for tradition, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/37 "2008-07-09T17:08:01Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Hear, hear! [/QUOTE] Hey! I didn’t get a “Harrumph” outta that guy! ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/38 "2008-07-09T22:13:44Z")
[QUOTE=Usram] A lot of those also apply in the British parliament, certainly the “liar” thing. Do you also have the convention that the upper house is not to be referred to by name? [/QUOTE] Yes. But I’ve also seen the other houses mentioned by their proper names too. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/39 "2008-07-09T22:46:58Z")
Wasn’t there a way the BBC used to refer to the early ITV as ‘the other side’ or something? ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234/40 "2008-07-09T23:19:44Z")
> [@](#): > > What happens if that member is lying? How are you supposed to point that out? It’s called ‘seriously misleading the House’ and if you caught doing it, it is a real career stopper. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-british-house-of-commons-debate-so-different-from-us-house/455234.md?page=3)