# Why is calling Trump Supporters MAGAts allowed? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 31, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060 "2024-07-31T14:23:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/241 "2024-08-26T18:08:11Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I understand. I was reacting to you saying, “Since I never said that posters here think Trump supporters should be exterminated.” Some people could have reasonably thought you did. Fair enough, and I think there’s a very interesting discussion about how much daylight we actually see between those two statements, and whether that changes in different contexts. If someone says “I wish there were no more vegetarians in the US” but then clarifies they meant that they wish all vegetarians would start eating meat, would we view that differently from someone who says that they wish there were no more Jews or Muslims in the US, but then clarifies that they wish they’d all convert to Christianity (or become atheist)? Would we treat those situations differently, and if so, why? I think that could delve into some interesting philosophical questions. That said, it’s a topic for a different thread, and as you point out: > [@Stratocaster](#): > > That isn’t a misunderstanding of your point; it has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/242 "2024-08-26T18:09:20Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > I think it’s (C) MAGAts is not dehumanizing language. For it to be dehumanizing, you have to use tortured logic/arguments to get to it being calling them maggots in a demeaning way. I think that’s a far fetched argument when every source I can find states that MAGAt originated as a homophone of Maggot. It’s clearly intended to insult by comparison to a vile and disgusting creature. That’s _textbook_ dehumanization. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/243 "2024-08-26T18:13:28Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Look, I’m not the one who brought up the view of (direct quote) “Trump supporters as subhuman scum, as vermin whose very existence is tainting this country, as something to eliminate completely” That was my explanation for the connotation of calling someone a Maggot (or an insulting term derived from the word maggot, like MAGAt). As I stated dozens of times now, those connotations are there whether or not anyone holds that view of Trump supporters. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Respectfully, I’m done here. You obviously have strong views on the matter, and you’re entitled to your views, but I think they’re misplaced. I think you have _no idea what the views I’ve been trying to communicate are_. That may well be my fault. > [@wolfpup](#): > > You’re attributing malice where there is none. Correction: now I _know_ that you have no idea what I have been saying. _My point has absolutely nothing to do with malice._ I’ll restate it one more time: **Either** : A) Dehumanizing language is bad in and of itself, in which case we shouldn’t call people “MAGAts” whether we **have any malice for them or not** **OR** B) Dehumanizing language is OK as long as we don’t REALLY mean it and the target group is bad enough and anyways they did worse to us first ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/244 "2024-08-26T18:23:22Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Correction: now I _know_ that you have no idea what I have been saying. > > _My point has absolutely nothing to do with malice._ I’m sorry but your argument exemplifies the classic “begging the question” fallacy – the circular argument where the premise assumes the truth of the conclusion. Your premise is that “MAGAt” is _ipso facto_ “dehumanizing”, and everything follows from that. My point has been that it is not, and that no one here has ever used it in that sense or for that purpose. So the “dehumanizing” premise is entirely your interpretation, which you wrongly take to be axiomatic. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/245 "2024-08-26T18:31:26Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Your premise is that “MAGAt” is _ipso facto_ “dehumanizing”, and everything follows from that. Correct, calling someone a “Maggot” is dehumanizing, even if you spell it a funny way. Your argument seems to be that since you don’t ACTUALLY hate Trump supporters or think they are subhuman, calling them “Maggots” is OK. That’s B: B) Dehumanizing language is OK as long as we don’t REALLY mean it and the target group is bad enough and anyways they did worse to us first You’re just trying to no-true-Scotsman your way to getting away with saying that calling people you don’t like “maggots” isn’t dehumanizing language. Sorry, but I’m not buying it. Your malice for Trumpers, or lack thereof, and your desire to purge them, or lack thereof, has _absolutely nothing to do_ with the **fact** that referring to people with a deprecating term derived from the word “maggot” is very much dehumanizing. It’s _textbook_ dehumanization. Now, if you want to argue that it’s FINE to use a term derived from “maggot” to describe Trump supporters, because you don’t have malice towards them and you don’t want to purge them and they do tons of fucked up shit and deserve it, then _make that argument_. That’s B. But _don’t_ argue that the term is not dehumanizing. That’s not a defensible argument. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/246 "2024-08-26T18:40:35Z")
ChatGPT Nonsense is hidden for those who dislike that stuff. > **ChatGPT Nonsense** > > This actually seems like the sort of place ChatGPT might come in handy, and I know @wolfpup has been a fan in the past. > > I asked ChatGPT for a list of the top 10 animals someone might use for a dehumanizing comparison. Unfortunately for me, ChatGPT did not give me maggots right away - the only invertebrate was a cockroach, in fact, and most critters were mammals. Fair enough. I then asked it for ten more, and Maggot was number 8 - 18th aint bad I suppose! > > Here is what ChatGPT had to say about maggots: > > > [@](#): > > > > **Maggot** - Conveys disgust, worthlessness, or being a scavenger. > > I then asked ChatGPT, what about the term MAGAt? > > > [@](#): > > > > The term “MAGAts,” a portmanteau of “MAGA” (Make America Great Again) and “maggots,” is clearly intended to be derogatory and dehumanizing. By combining “MAGA,” which represents supporters of Donald Trump, with “maggots,” which are associated with decay and filth, the term degrades the individuals it refers to, suggesting they are parasitic or harmful. > > > > This kind of language is meant to insult and diminish the humanity of the people being described, making it a dehumanizing term. > > Clearly, this should settle the question once and for all 😉 ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/247 "2024-08-26T18:45:21Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Now, if you want to argue that it’s FINE to use a term derived from “maggot” to describe Trump supporters The term is derived from “MAGA” not “maggot”. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/248 "2024-08-26T18:48:26Z")
@Babale, unless you’re enjoying this, I’d give up. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/249 "2024-08-26T18:55:06Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > The term is derived from “MAGA” not “maggot”. Do you know what a portmanteau is? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/250 "2024-08-26T18:59:01Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > @Babale, unless you’re enjoying this, I’d give up You are probably right… ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/251 "2024-08-26T19:10:09Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If we want to argue that dehumanizing language is **not** bad in and of itself, that there are times when someone’s behavior justifies using dehumanizing language against them, then THAT is the argument we should make. The problem is not with the term itself. The problem is in overextending it to every Republican as I see some do (not necessarily here). It’s the same as using “libtard” to describe the clueless SJWs that have no realistic view on how the world works. That may be ok but using it in a way that classifies all Democrats (or even all progressives) as libtards is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/252 "2024-08-26T19:13:00Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The problem is not with the term itself. The problem is in overextending it to every Republican as I see some do (not necessarily here). Since this is being posted in _About This Message Board_, how much do you think happens here? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/253 "2024-08-26T20:13:31Z")
FWIW I find “MAGAts” to be an amusing but not dehumanising insult, and have used it as such. But if it really bothers people, I’ll stick to MAGAs. I am, however, fascinated by the effort put into sorting which insults are dehumanising and which are merely hyperbolic belittling. If I call someone “pond scum”, am I calling for them to be exterminated via physical or chemical means? If I call them a “disgusting pig”, is the assumption that I wish for them to be butchered inherent in that? The desperate extrapolation from “MAGAts” to “something to be exterminated” remains unconvincing _unless there is more context to it_. And without any evidence whatsoever that it is intended to signify anything more than a childish belittling based on their cult ID, everything else is purely a flimsy inference on the part of the reader. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/254 "2024-08-26T20:47:13Z")
We should probably agree on what “dehumanizing” means. Generally, it’s more than just derogatory language. It means to equate someone as something less than human _in a demeaning way_. I don’t see anything about an intent for it to be real/acted upon. But I’m all ears if it means something different. If we agree that’s basically what dehumanizing means, it’s that last italicized bit that people are disagreeing about. Mostly. The reason dehumanizing people, especially the “enemy”, is bad is history shows when dehumanizing language is repeated, people start seeing their fellow human beings as sub-human\*. It’s then easier to harm them. It’s the start of a bad path. \*_per an NPR article I just saw._ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/255 "2024-08-26T20:51:20Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Generally, it’s more than just derogatory language. It means to equate someone as something less than human _in a demeaning way_. Isn’t the purpose of _any_ insult to demean someone? Isn’t calling someone an asshole, or an idiot, still demeaning them? ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/256 "2024-08-26T20:55:59Z")
Yes. But I’m not just saying MAGAt is _just_ demeaning. I’m saying: Less than human + demeaning = dehumanizing. An idiot or an asshole are still human. The world is filled with them. Probably me. You can call me an idiot for something dumb I posted/did, it would demean me, but it would not infer I was less than human. Late: T_o be clear that’s outside this board generally. The board would have rules on what you could / could not say._ ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/257 "2024-08-26T20:57:35Z")
But a you provide an example where a term is used to indicate “less than human” but _not_ in order to demean? ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/258 "2024-08-26T20:58:07Z")
**Wolfpup** is such a dog =) Dog is not demeaning there, but it is in lots of other instances. Context matters of course. Late: _we are both editing our responses but I think this still answers your question. Animal references can be dehumanizing sometimes, but sometimes cute/fine/etc._ ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/259 "2024-08-26T21:00:19Z")
ISTM that does not imply “less than human.” It’s referencing a character trait. One more edit: I get your point now. I just think it’s putting too fine a point on things. MAGAts is well across the cute/fine boundary. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/260 "2024-08-26T21:04:42Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > An idiot or an asshole are still human. The world is filled with them. Probably me. You can call me an idiot for something dumb I posted/did, it would demean me, but it would not infer I was less than human. Would calling someone a “jackass” qualify? What about “a piece of shit?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060.md?page=14)