# Why is calling Trump Supporters MAGAts allowed? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 31, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060 "2024-07-31T14:23:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/281 "2024-08-27T18:39:13Z")
I love you @Miller, but I don’t get your nitpicking here. Obviously the board allows some insults and disallows others (inside or outside of the Pit), and it’s a judgment call. And IMO the “no bright lines” philosophy is a good one – let’s not leave room for trolls to find the perfect spot to be within the rules but still be trolling. But I’m not at all clear what you’re trying to get at with your questioning here. My position is that MAGAts, like “libtards”, “Democrat party”, and similar mass-category-based insults (at least the ones that are based on vitriol) ought to be banned outside of the Pit for the simple reason that this level of vitriol doesn’t foster good discussion (quite the opposite, IMO). But I don’t feel very strongly. What is your position? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/282 "2024-08-27T18:51:42Z")
So much of this thread is people trying to tell each other what somebody else really said or actually thinks. Why don’t we just say what we ourselves think, as clearly as possible. I think it is dehumanising to call people maggots, even if you spell it differently. Even if you argue, in the face of evidence, that you didn’t really mean _maggots_ at all. Its dehumanising as a simple matter of definition of the term de-human-ising. I don’t think all cases of dehumanising are equal, for example banter between close friends could include terms that are technically dehumanising, but in the context, are completely harmless or even slightly positive. Some cases of dehumanising can be extraordiarily bad. This ain’t one of them. But given the highly polarised nature of US party politics, I am really struggling to accept that affiliates of one party chose to call adherents of the other party ‘maggots’ and it was all just jolly good lighthearted harmless fun, but maybe that’s on me. However I dont think its sufficiently bad that the SDMB needs a rule about it. It would be worse if the term was frequently accompanied by some sort of call to action, for example, and it would be worse if the term was addressed at people who had no choice about being the target of the derision (as would be the case if the target was racial, for example). So i dont think its as bad as it could be. I do think its just sufficiently bad that people using the term should consider the light it casts on them. Yes, your enemy may be the real bad guy but name-calling like this is not the best possible look if you want to clearly differentiate yourself as one of the good guys. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/283 "2024-08-27T18:56:30Z")
I think that my opinion is in accord with everything you just posted. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/284 "2024-08-27T19:00:16Z")
Simple solution: Let us not call conservatives “maggots” outside of the BBQ Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/285 "2024-08-27T19:04:57Z")
I mean honestly that seems reasonable to me and I think highlights a point I overlooked: hot vs cold blood. What you might call people in the heat of genuine anger is different from how you might mention them in casual discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/286 "2024-08-27T19:07:06Z")
You do understand that I am referring to the word “maggot” itself? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/287 "2024-08-27T19:09:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Simple solution: Let us not call conservatives “maggots” outside of the BBQ Pit Agreed. To be clear, we shouldn’t call conservatives “maggots” outside the Pit _even if we spell it funny_, right? …Right? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/288 "2024-08-27T19:10:12Z")
Nice try. I mean what I say, not what you might mean instead. BTW, I have no need to “be clear”, since I was perfectly clear in my previous post. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/289 "2024-08-27T19:15:36Z")
Oh, right. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/290 "2024-08-27T19:17:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > BTW, I have no need to “be clear”, since I was perfectly clear in my previous post. Not really. You said we shouldn’t call people maggots outside the Pit, but apparently calling people maggots outside the Pit is OK by you as long as you childishly misspell it. That’s not clear at all. I’d assume if you don’t like being called a Maggot that you also dislike being called a M4gg0t, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/291 "2024-08-27T19:22:39Z")
You may assume anything your heart desires-that is your prerogative. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/292 "2024-08-27T19:33:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What is your position? Personally, I don’t like terms like that, simply because they’re meant to be funny, but any joke stops being funny after you’ve told it two or three times. So the 1,200th iteration of any version of these jokes is just grating at that point, regardless of the politics involved. But the issue with those terms is unrelated to the concept of a “dehumanizing” insult, and is more about the tension between describing a broad political movement negatively, and insulting another person directly. Neither “libtard” nor “Rethugnican” are dehumanizing, but both have the same conceptual weight as “MAGAt” or “Demoncrat” to me. I don’t want to speak for another mod’s forum, so I won’t get into which forums those phrases are acceptable in, or under what contexts, but I do feel they should all be modded equally. The actual nitpicking that I was doing in this thread was really whether classifying some insults as “dehumanizing” is useful in the abstract. ISTM that the vast majority of insults are dehumanizing. I agree that calling someone a maggot is a much stronger insult than calling them a jackass, but I’m not sure the meaningful distinction there is best summed up by which one is “dehumanizing.” ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/293 "2024-08-27T19:50:14Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > So who is it that’s making it a binary argument? The OP, for one, when they express surprise that the term is not banned. And @Babale, now that they’ve made their position clearer: > [@Babale](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > But to be clear, your position is A, right? All “dehumanizing” insults are bad and should be avoided? > > \<_snip_\> > But yes, I’d answer A. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Simple solution: Let us not call conservatives “maggots” outside of the BBQ Pit. Exactly. And no one has. > [@Babale](#): > > You said we shouldn’t call people maggots outside the Pit, but apparently calling people maggots outside the Pit is OK by you as long as you childishly misspell it. That’s not clear at all. It’s pretty clear to me. The only problem with “MAGAt”, as @Miller points out, is that it’s supposed to be a joke, and jokes quickly get stale. But it’s still a pretty good stand-in for “Trump cultist”. To call it “dehumanizing” is absurd. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > My position is that MAGAts, like “libtards”, “Democrat party”, and similar mass-category-based insults (at least the ones that are based on vitriol) ought to be banned outside of the Pit for the simple reason that this level of vitriol doesn’t foster good discussion (quite the opposite, IMO) What vitriol? In point of fact, there probably sometimes is actual vitriol directed against those whose extremism makes them a direct danger to the nation, but it sure as hell is not encapsulated in a silly, childish term like “MAGAt”, which in my view carries about the same level of vitriol as “poopy-pants”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/294 "2024-08-27T19:59:06Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > I feel MAGAs is fine. (They picked their own hat) > MAGAts is on the same level of wrong as democrats. No, people _are_ Democrats, not Democratic. You mean “Demonrats”? I wish we would not use MAGAts or orange shit gibbon etc. But I cant see a rule against it. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/295 "2024-08-27T20:01:34Z")
Point though, if we’re talking about “severity” of insults, calling someone a maggot (or MAGAt) is IMHO a few orders of magnitude less severe than calling them Nazis. Yet (and with probably very good cause) we call MAGAs (note, still using my earlier distinction from Republicans as a whole for what it’s worth) Nazis in multiple forums on probably a daily basis. Is it, as @miller talks about, a factor of the severity of the insult (vis “jackass”) or is it the comparison to a low-regarded animal (as before)? Because for me (and again, that’s the only person I’m speaking for) I’m not trying to dehumanize MAGAs by comparing them to animals in an attempt to “other” them - I absolute consider them others, and in many cases, less than animals because many/most of them explicitly wish death upon me, my kin, and friends with ZERO pushback from their leaders. I do understand and sympathize with @Babale’s and other attempts to take the high road, and avoid all such tainted topics, and give @miller’s point of tired jokes a wincing, rueful acknowledgement, but (again, IMHO!!!) we’re well past the point where being clinically polite and “detached” (if such things were _ever_ possible in the first place) arguments are possible. And, as the mods as a whole have confirmed it’s not banned under the existing rules, nor does it seem likely a new rule will be posted, I will continue to use the term with the homophone meaning _intended_ although in general I’m polite enough to try to avoid it in the sort of “mixed company” that P&E implies. TL;DR - yes, I’m using it, it’s a demeaning term, and to @Babale’s earlier point, I’m owning it, not dodging it. However others may use it differently, mean it differently, or choose not to use it all, and that’s fine for them unless the mods choose to make a change. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/296 "2024-08-27T20:05:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I wish we would not use MAGAts or orange shit gibbon etc. At this point those insults + The Cheetoe, etc. are so overused as to be meaningless. > [@wolfpup](#): > > a silly, childish term like “MAGAt”, which in my view carries about the same level of vitriol as “poopy-pants”. And just as creative now-a-days ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/297 "2024-08-27T20:11:20Z")
I do think there’s something to the “dehumanizing” talk, but it’s very hard for me to put into words. Maybe it’s when it’s a mass category of people? Or maybe that when combined with references to vermin? Or maybe it’s just the feeling, and “I know it when I see it”… I’m not sure. Some of these (libtard, Democrat party) give me, personally, the same feeling (but to a much, much smaller degree) as “kike” (speaking as a Jew). You don’t need to make rules based on my personal feelings, but IMO it would be reasonable and worth it to try to minimize that feeling outside the Pit, which would mean banning all those, and MAGAt and the like, outside the Pit. But I don’t feel strongly. Sometimes it gives me a bad feeling, but it’s really a teeny tiny bad feeling, and I’m not that worried about it. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/298 "2024-08-27T20:48:31Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > > [@Mangetout](#): > > > > So who is it that’s making it a binary argument? > > The OP, for one, when they express surprise that the term is not banned. And @Babale, now that they’ve made their position clearer: > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > > > But to be clear, your position is A, right? All “dehumanizing” insults are bad and should be avoided? > > > > \<_snip_\> > > But yes, I’d answer A. Except you snipped the part where I said it’s not quite binary and has at least some nuance. > [@wolfpup](#): > > It’s pretty clear to me. The only problem with “MAGAt”, as @Miller points out, is that it’s supposed to be a joke, and jokes quickly get stale. That is A problem with MAGAt, but it is not the ONLY problem with MAGAt. The other problem with MAGAt is that you are calling a group of people you dislike “maggots”, you’re just spelling it in a silly way. > [@wolfpup](#): > > But it’s still a pretty good stand-in for “Trump cultist”. So is “Trumper”. > [@wolfpup](#): > > To call it “dehumanizing” is absurd. To say that calling a group of people you dislike “maggots” is not dehumanizing as long as you spell it funny is 4b$urd. > [@wolfpup](#): > > What vitriol? The vitriol directed at those who you wish to like to fly larvae. If you want to say ‘MAGA supporters are vile enough that they deserve the vitriol’ then fine, say so; but please don’t pretend that you’re calling people “maggots” on a totally friendly way. Or as @Mangetout put it: > [@Mangetout](#): > > But given the highly polarised nature of US party politics, I am really struggling to accept that affiliates of one party chose to call adherents of the other party ‘maggots’ and it was all just jolly good lighthearted harmless fun, but maybe that’s on me. > [@ParallelLines](#): > > And, as the mods as a whole have confirmed it’s not banned under the existing rules, nor does it seem likely a new rule will be posted, I will continue to use the term with the homophone meaning _intended_ although in general I’m polite enough to try to avoid it in the sort of “mixed company” that P&E implies. Bravo to you! You are being intellectually honest with yourself about your use of the term “MAGAts”. That’s a completely defensible position, and I commend you for taking it rather than pretending that MAGAt is not dehumanizing or just harmless fun. Again, let me quote @Mangetout: > [@Mangetout](#): > > I don’t think all cases of dehumanising are equal, for example banter between close friends could include terms that are technically dehumanising, but in the context, are completely harmless or even slightly positive. Some cases of dehumanising can be extraordiarily bad. This ain’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/299 "2024-08-27T21:04:35Z")
Here’s a [holocaust museum](https://stlholocaustmuseum.org/2023/12/20/3-ways-to-confront-dehumanizing-language/)’s take on dehumanizing language: > **3 Ways to Respond to Dehumanizing Language** > > - **Recognize it:** Dehumanizing language is any language that reduces human beings. This could look like calling people animals or vermin, saying someone is crazy or insane, or calling someone alien or illegal. These are all forms of dehumanizing language. > - **Question why it’s being used:** What is the person or group using the dehumanizing language looking to achieve? Why do they want to dehumanize someone or a group of people. Who does this division serve? > - **Call it out:** Individuals and institutions need to have a zero-tolerance policy for dehumanizing language. Call it out among friends, family, political figures and the media. Why dehumanizing language is bad: > **4 Reasons Why Dehumanizing Language is Dangerous** > > 1. **Erosion of Empathy:** Dehumanizing language diminishes our ability to empathize with others. By characterizing individuals or groups as less than human, it becomes easier for people to distance themselves emotionally and morally, creating an “Us vs. Them” mentality. > > 2. **Normalization of Discrimination:** The use of dehumanizing language contributes to the normalization of discriminatory beliefs and behaviors. When people are consistently portrayed as subhuman or as a threat, it becomes easier to justify discriminatory policies, exclusionary practices, or even violence against them. > > 3. **Long-term Repercussions:** Dehumanizing language can have long-term consequences, creating a legacy of animosity and mistrust between different groups. History has shown that dehumanization has played a role in some of the worst atrocities, as it creates a psychological justification for inhumane treatment and violence. > > 4. **Impact on the dehumanized group:** Groups that are consistently dehumanized can often internalize this messaging leading to mental health crisis. Until I made the OP, I had only heard and read MAGAt as Maggot. For a long time. So it’s just ingrained in my head that’s what it means/sounds like (I don’t even “see” anything but maggot). So I just kept seeing people very casually calling Trump supporters maggots over and over. That’s on me, and while I still think it was meant to be a homophone\*\*, I get not everyone thinks or sees that. Late: \*\* _I’ve rewritten that sentence a few times. I trying to say the person who “invented” that word. It was originally meant to be a homophone of maggot - and not that other people use it that way on this board or with that purpose in mind_. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/300 "2024-08-27T21:19:28Z")
The problem with that argument is that the Right _is_ genuinely malignant and dangerous. We _should_ look at them with an “Us versus Them” attitude, because that is the reality of the situation. We _should_ look at them as a threat, because they are. We _should_ feel animosity towards them, since they want to hurt us and kill us. And they already _do_ feel “persecuted”, they feel"persecuted" if anyone else at all is allowed any form of happiness or freedom. Thing is, we can’t _make_ them not hate everyone else, so we’re in an “Us versus Them” situation whether we want it or not and our only choice if if we _admit_ it or not. And those arguments weren’t made to apply to the persecuted looking back at their persecutors, it’s not a symmetrical situation and the arguments fall apart if you flip the target. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060.md?page=16)