# Why is calling Trump Supporters MAGAts allowed? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 31, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060 "2024-07-31T14:23:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/321 "2024-08-27T23:43:10Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So you’re saying there are good people on both sides? This whole “This guy doesn’t like it when we call conservatives maggots, he must be a Trump sympathizer” schtick is getting _very_ tiresome. Do you need me to virtue signal a bit about how far to the left I am and how stupid I think the Right is nowadays before I’m allowed to critique the way we dehumanize the other side? Can you let me know in advance how much virtue signaling and on what topic I need to do before you acknowledge that I’m saying this because I genuinely think it is bad for us to use this kind of language towards the other side, and not because I’m a backdoor Trump supporter? No, there aren’t “good people on both sides”. But I don’t think we should call even bad people “maggots”, not pretend that even bad people are just mindlessly evil automatons rather than human beings with motivations based on the same emotions that we all feel. And that’s an analysis that we should apply to people that are _far_ more vile than _Trump supporters_, by the way. It’s the same analysis we should apply to understanding Putin supporters, or Hamas, or yes, even Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/322 "2024-08-27T23:46:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And much more likely you and the Jews die together in the camps, which is what trying to _reason_ with Nazis got people in real life. Obviously if the Nazis are trying to take power you should oppose them with force of arms rather than debate them. That’s got nothing to do with whether we should use the same sort of dehumanizing language that they do. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s both self destructive and immoral to refuse to condemn Nazis and people like them. Who said anything about refusing to condemn Nazis and people like them? Can you think of no way to condemn someone other than by using dehumanizing language? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/323 "2024-08-27T23:56:40Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > There are bad, hateful people out there. People who despise other groups of people with every fiber of their being and wish to harm them. And you know what? 9 times out of 10 they arrived there not out of hateful psychopathy but out of somewhat understandable human motivations. They are Driven by ignorance, and fear of the unknown. Both are very common parts of the human condition. > > A Maggot/MAGAt doesn’t have understandable human motivations. It supports Trump because being vile and disgusting is in its nature. It is an alien entity, hostile, not only unworthy of being understood but lacking any true sentience _to be_ understood. I know we’re never going to agree on this, but I’m going to make my point once again. I’ll preface it by saying that I absolutely agree with the last post from @CoolHandCox citing the Holocaust Museum’s take on the harms of dehumanizing language. I will also say that I fully recognize the power of language to shape our thinking, and why certain words and phrases shouldn’t be used because they’re toxic. However – and this is crucial – it’s also possible to be so over-sensitive to these issues that one can go way, way, way over the top on the matter of what has come to be called “political correctness”, which in my view is what you’ve done here. It’s much like objecting to the use of a term like “master switch” to denote a main circuit breaker or “master warning light” to denote an unknown problem within a larger system, because it somehow supposedly evokes slavery or something. This is not sensitivity, it’s hyper-sensitivity at a level that is comical. In order for language to be genuinely dehumanizing and harmful, it has to **seriously and plausibly** convey the idea that a certain subset of humanity is subhuman and deserves to be treated accordingly. I’ve cited examples of where this actually happened. The idea the “MAGAts” is in that category and would promote hate is entirely within your own imagination. The idea is absurd. > [@Babale](#): > > The Nazis wanted to kill the Jews because Nazi ideology claimed that Jews were evil masterminds manipulating the whole world including but not limited to making Germany lose WWI. > > They (the Nazis) did not kill Jews because they (the Nazis) put “Evil” on their character sheet and thus decided to kill as many non Nazis as possible. This is getting way off topic, but surely you can see how far removed this is from the silly “MAGAts” meme? It’s also wrong. Hitler and his cohorts were obviously devoid of empathy, and it wasn’t just against Jews, although they were the most oppressed victims. It was also ruthlessly against members of his own party when they challenged his power, against other minorities, against Russians, against the German people themselves when Hitler declared that if they were too “weak” to fight for victory then they deserved the consequences of defeat, and eventually against himself when he took his own life. In a word, he was insane. Again, way off topic, but please try to keep this in mind when trying to imply that a term like “MAGAt” has anything to do with this kind of atrocity, or is anything other than a silly internet meme. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/324 "2024-08-27T23:59:12Z")
I am trying to find a nice way to condemn a group that would like to see me dead, but making fun of the word they use to describe themselves and the silly red hat they use to make themselves stand out seems to be a bad idea in your book (despite the laws they pass and the nastier laws they would like to pass, and the absolutely nasty lies they tell about us etc.) so what about…doodyheads? Poor sports? Nasty people? Got a preference? As far as I can tell, we are being overly nice to some very bad people, but that doesn’t seem to be enough for you. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/325 "2024-08-28T00:08:25Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > It’s much like objecting to the use of a term like “master switch” to denote a main circuit breaker or “master warning light” to denote an unknown problem within a larger system, because it somehow supposedly evokes slavery or something. This is not sensitivity, it’s hyper-sensitivity at a level that is comical. Dude. You are comparing “master switch” - a term that isn’t meant as an insult to anyone and just happens to use the same word that vaguely relates to slavery - to _calling a group of people you dislike maggots_. That’s not an irrelevant comparison, that’s a _hyper_-irrelevant comparison. Tell you what, why not make this point again, but this time pick a term that’s actually analogous in any way, shape, or form? A term that you think is totally fine that’s used to describe: 1. a group of people 2. in a negative way 3. that derives from an animal traditionally considered to be vermin If you can do that, I’ll concede that maybe calling Trumpers “Maggots” is just harmless fun. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Hitler and his cohorts were obviously devoid of empathy, and it wasn’t just against Jews, although they were the most oppressed victims. That’s laughably wrong, in the “it can’t happen here” sense. Hitler was a vegetarian; he loved and cared for his dogs; and despite being a human being who was apparently capable of empathy, he was the world’s greatest monster. He and his supporters are a testament to how _ideology can allow you to willfully shut down your empathy entirely towards those you consider enemies_, not to how the entire German nation was full of sociopaths but somehow only for a few years. Thinking that they were cartoon villains might be _comforting_, but it isn’t _true_. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/326 "2024-08-28T00:09:40Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Thinking that they were cartoon villains might be _comforting_, but it isn’t _true_. Nobody is laughing. And everyone can see the bait-and-switch going on, claiming that everyone is using the term “maggot”, when in reality the people using it the most are the ones trying to ban a different word. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/327 "2024-08-28T00:38:28Z")
I really don’t know if you are reading any of my posts. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I am trying to find a nice way Excluded middle. There is plenty of room between ‘nice’ and ‘vermin’. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > but making fun of the word they use to describe themselves and the silly red hat they use to make themselves stand out seems to be a bad idea in your book Can you quote where I said anything about making fun of their hat being bad? If you want to say that they’re all wearing Dear Leader’s Little Red Hat, I think that would be totally fine. If you wanted to say that after Jan 6 it is appropriate that they look like they have blood on their heads that would be totally fine. If you came up with a different hat based insult that was actually funny (but where the punchline wasn’t “haha, that sounds like ‘Maggot’!”) that would be BETTER than fine! > [@Czarcasm](#): > > (despite the laws they pass and the nastier laws they would like to pass, and the absolutely nasty lies they tell about us etc.) Correct - my concern in not wanting the Left to use dehumanizing language in talking about the Right is mostly based around my dislike of what dehumanizing language does to the speaker, IE the harm that will come to the way people on the Left think. It is _not_ based on any potential harm coming to the Right. Therefore, the argument “but the Right is bad, who cares if we say mean things about them” doesn’t move me at all; because I was never concerned about the harm to the Right to begin with. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > so what about…doodyheads? > Poor sports? > Nasty people? > > Got a preference? I like “Trumpets” because they are loud and annoying and it alludes to their idol, personally. Or, alternatively, you can keep calling them MAGAts, and have the intellectual honesty to admit that yes, it IS dehumanizing, but you’re fine with it in this scenario for whatever reason. Like @ParallelLines did above. That’s a defensible position for them to take, and I commend them for it. > [@](#): > > And everyone can see the bait-and-switch going on, claiming that everyone is using the term “maggot”, when in reality the people using it the most are the ones trying to ban a different word. The fact that MAGAt is MAGA+Maggot has been cited literally dozens of times now. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/328 "2024-08-28T00:39:48Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If you came up with a different hat based insult that was actually funny MAGhAt? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/329 "2024-08-28T00:41:48Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Or, alternatively, you can keep calling them MAGAts, and have the intellectual honesty to admit that yes, it IS dehumanizing, I am being totally intellectually honest when I say the word is NOT dehumanizing, and is in fact rather mild considering what they say, what they do, what they want to say and what they want to do. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/330 "2024-08-28T00:50:07Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Tell you what, why not make this point again, but this time pick a term that’s actually analogous in any way, shape, or form? A term that you think is totally fine that’s used to describe: > > 1. a group of people > 2. in a negative way > 3. that derives from an animal traditionally considered to be vermin We call people “rats” when they go to the authorities to report on someone. That fits every criterion you laid out. And to me it’s totally fine; I don’t see the term as being controversial. Certainly not to the degree of, say, an antisemitic slur, which at least one poster here said MAGAt was reminiscent of. Even the term “vermin” is itself a bad label to apply to people **because** of its historical usage (as far back as the 16th century) as a label for people who are poor and disadvantaged. Such a thing is what makes that label awful, not solely because it derives from a class of animal considered a pest. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/331 "2024-08-28T00:55:10Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > If you came up with a different hat based insult that was actually funny > > MAGhAt?. Oof. Struggling to view this one neutrally. It feels very maggoty to me but I _think_ that’s only because I know what you’re reverse engineering it from? I’m trying to imagine a world where this was the only nickname I’d seen (and obviously in that case it would be clear that it _actually_ means MAGA Hat rather than being an _obvious_ cover up story made up by the online influencer crowd after the fact, once the dehumanization allegations sprang up). Even so, I think it’s too maggoty. I’d actually buy the idea that the original people who came up with it meant “'MAGA hat” rather than “maggot”, but once people pointed out how similar it is to maggot I think we’d be in the same place we are now. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/332 "2024-08-28T01:03:23Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I like “Trumpets” because they are loud and annoying and it alludes to their idol, personally. > > Or, alternatively, you can keep calling them MAGAts, and have the intellectual honesty to admit that yes, it IS dehumanizing, but you’re fine with it in this scenario for whatever reason. As are you apparently, since trumpets are inanimate objects calling them that is also dehumanizing. 🎺 ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/333 "2024-08-28T01:18:33Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > We call people “rats” when they go to the authorities to report on someone. That fits every criterion you laid out. And to me it’s totally fine; I don’t see the term as being controversial First off, I’ll definitely give you kudos, that’s about a thousand times closer than @wolfpup’s “master switch”. However, I don’t think it quite works. We call _a single_ person a rat _for their individual actions_. It’s not a term for a group of people that disparages them based on their membership in that group. My first point was a term for a _group_ of people, and I do think that’s important. If a news article came out saying that IDF soldiers were calling Hamas members “Hamasbroshim”, a term I just made up that’s a portmanteau of “achbaroshim”, rats, and Hamas - I highly doubt we’d have so many people eager to explain how actually that term is not dehumanizing at all, it’s just a funny joke. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/334 "2024-08-28T01:22:11Z")
All of your examples seem to have one thing in common: they are all overblown fantasies. Do you have any real examples to compare it to? ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/335 "2024-08-28T01:32:30Z")
I’m going to suggest everyone pause. Okay. Well, I was probably ignored. 🙂 Seriously though, and speaking of excluded middles, a term can be “dehumanizing” to a greater or lesser extent. And probably _everyone_ (as evidenced by this thread) draws the line _differently_. @Babale is going the high road, and not wanting to step a single foot upon it. Which is their choice. @Czarcasm’s judgement is that they _don’t_ find it so, or perhaps, so weakly so as to be utterly negligible. (mentioning the two most verbal posters in the argument, not that they are the only ones on either side) And guess what? It’s fine if you draw the lines differently, and judge differently. Do what is going to be more comfortable to you, especially as it’s not being moderated at this time. I think a lot of the animosity is over the term “dehumanizing” and feeling insulted by it, but well, my opinions on that are upthread, and I don’t see MAGAs as in any way being worthy of yelling at each other over just HOW deplorable they are. You may resume your normally scheduled bickering. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/336 "2024-08-28T01:50:20Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > First off, I’ll definitely give you kudos, that’s about a thousand times closer than @wolfpup’s “master switch”. Wut?? I was done here, but what the ever-loving hell? Do you imagine that I’m just making things up? The word “master” is indeed being deprecated in many contexts **[such as electrical engineering](https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/how-master-slave-terminology-reexamined-in-electrical-engineering/)** despite many decades of standard and familiar usage because of someone’s imaginary fantasy that it’s somehow “hurtful” to someone. And forget about referring to your home’s main bedroom as the “:master bedroom” **[lest you be judged a racist](https://www.propertyspecialistsinc.com/shift-from-the-term-master-bedroom-to-primary-bedroom/)**. This is exactly the kind of way overblown nonsense that you’re promoting. Yes, language is very important in shaping and reflecting our values. It’s also all too easy to go way over the top into a frenzy of political correctness that becomes comical self-parody. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/337 "2024-08-28T02:11:21Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Wut?? I was done here, but what the ever-loving hell? Do you imagine that I’m just making things up? The word “master” is indeed being deprecated in many contexts **[such as electrical engineering](https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/how-master-slave-terminology-reexamined-in-electrical-engineering/)** despite many decades of standard and familiar usage because of someone’s imaginary fantasy that it’s somehow “hurtful” to someone. And forget about referring to your home’s main bedroom as the “:master bedroom” **[lest you be judged a racist](https://www.propertyspecialistsinc.com/shift-from-the-term-master-bedroom-to-primary-bedroom/)**. No, I don’t think you’re making stuff up, I’m familiar with the discussion - I just agree with you that it’s nonsense. Just because other people spout nonsense about master bedrooms doesn’t mean that there isn’t a valid comment to be made about calling people “maggots” and spelling it a funny way. And in case you missed it while indignantly writing this post in response to the first line of my post, I explained precisely _why_ I don’t think the two are comparable above. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/338 "2024-08-28T03:04:28Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Who said anything about refusing to condemn Nazis and people like them? Can you think of no way to condemn someone other than by using dehumanizing language? No, since doing so requires slanting the language in their favor. As you yourself demonstrated when a few posts on you called Hitler “history’s greatest monster”; “monster” is as “dehumanizing” as it gets. There’s no virtue is cherry-picking language to make horrible people look better than they are. And it aids and abets people like the Nazis, and _treats their victims_ as less than human rather than merely failing to suck up hard enough to their killers. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/339 "2024-08-28T06:14:04Z")
Maybe people calling themselves “MAGA” and wearing cheap red caps with “MAGA” on them is a really dumb idea, and you should get on them about their shortsightedness? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/340 "2024-08-28T07:09:53Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > This whole “This guy doesn’t like it when we call conservatives maggots, he must be a Trump sympathizer” schtick is getting _very_ tiresome. And, in this case, entirely imagined. I wasn’t calling you a Trump sympathizer and I don’t for a moment believe that you are. I was just mocking you for making terrible arguments. Funnily enough, you seem to have ignored the more substantive points in my post (particularly your repeatedly excluded middles), presumably because they didn’t align with your preferred dudgeon level. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060.md?page=18)