# Why is calling Trump Supporters MAGAts allowed? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 31, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060 "2024-07-31T14:23:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/361 "2024-08-28T14:40:04Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > then again, you have no idea what I have been arguing in this thread. There seems to be a lot of that in this forum. I have found that when the world has a problem with what I am saying, it is usually not the world that has the problem after all. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/362 "2024-08-28T14:40:17Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So you’re saying that people who sound like Nazis and whose actions are the same as those that led to Nazi persecution of Jews aren’t like Nazis at all, morally or otherwise, and I’m being unreasonable to draw that conclusion from your statements. Got it. Correct, I am not accusing anyone of being a Nazi. All I’m saying is “using language like calling your opponents maggots is dehumanization, and I think it is wrong”. Obviously there are different degrees of that, as I’ve said myself up thread. I didn’t say that your actions are “the same as those that led to Nazi persecution of Jews”, you made that part up because it’s easoer to argue against than what I actually said. If anything, I said that your choice of words is reminicient of the words the Nazis used. Which it is - Maggots are a type of vermin, and indeed, the Nazis called Jews and other people they considered undesirable vermin. The fact that _this one aspect_ of your actions and theirs are alike does not mean that your actions _overall_ are anything akin to theirs, and I never said or implied that to be the case. > [@Gyrate](#): > > More Manicheanism, I see. Nothing whatsoever exists between polite arguments or brutal pogroms, right? Because that _is_ the argument you keep making. YOU said “we didn’t reason the Nazis out of their opinions, we fought a war with them”. In response, I said “OK, if you think it’s going to take a war to stop MAGA, call them maggots, it will get you in the right headspace for civil war”. If you said “we didn’t reason the Nazis put of their opinion” but you meant to imply something other than “therefore it is not worth reasoning with MAGAts, we will need to defeat them by force to”, please let me know what you meant. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Oh right - you just repeatedly said that they _sound_ like Nazis and _act_ like Nazis, as well as insinuating that anyone doing so wants “a massive ideological civil war of existence”. Sigh. I’m not saying you want a massive ideological civil war. I am saying that IF you truly believe that anyone who is a Trump supporter is motivated only by hate and cannot be reasoned with - which is what @Der_Trihs said up thread - then the logical conclusion is civil war. I did not say that if you call Trump supporters maggots that you automatically believe that a civil war is necessary. I also never said that you’re acting like Nazis. I literally just said that calling people by a name derived from vermin sounds like the type of insults the Nazis used. If you’re unable to separate “you’re using the same insults the Nazis did” from “you are a Nazi and you’re going to genocide the people you’re insulting”, I don’t know how I can possibly clarify. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/363 "2024-08-28T14:40:58Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > But that’s not what you actually said, was it? It may have been what you _meant_, but it’s not what you _said_. No, that’s precisely what I said. If you think otherwise, go ahead and quote it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/364 "2024-08-28T14:41:59Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > (Yes, that’s not dehumanizing, but so fucking what, it’s still juvenile and that’s all MAGAts is too compared to NPCs and zombies (which isn’t just dehumanizing it’s straight out saying that the target can be killed without any reason.) Stealing gum from the grocery store is very juvenile compared to scamming senior citizens out of their life savings, but if someone calls me on shoplifting, I’m not gonna say, “But Bernie Madoff!” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/365 "2024-08-28T15:20:11Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > No, that’s precisely what I said. If you think otherwise, go ahead and quote it. Okay. > [@Babale](#): > > Ah, I see. That’s why Germany today is called the Fourth Reich and is the most right wing dominated nation in Europe. > > Oh wait, that’s not true _at all_. Duly quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/366 "2024-08-28T15:34:00Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Correct, I am not accusing anyone of being a Nazi. All I’m saying is “using language like calling your opponents maggots is dehumanization, and I think it is wrong”. Obviously there are different degrees of that, as I’ve said myself up thread. You’ve said a lot more than that. Don’t soft-pedal your views now when we can all read the thread. > [@](#): > > I didn’t say that your actions are “the same as those that led to Nazi persecution of Jews”, you made that part up because it’s easoer to argue against than what I actually said. If anything, I said that your choice of words is reminicient of the words the Nazis used. Which it is - Maggots are a type of vermin, and indeed, the Nazis called Jews and other people they considered undesirable vermin. You don’t even realize you’re doing it, do you… MAGAts → maggots → vermin → Nazi anti-Jewish propaganda is a well-greased rhetorical slope you’ve got there. And yet you are simultaneously claiming you’re not doing it. > [@Babale](#): > > The fact that _this one aspect_ of your actions and theirs are alike does not mean that your actions _overall_ are anything akin to theirs, and I never said or implied that to be the case. You’ve mentioned Nazis a _lot_ for an argument that wasn’t intended to draw comparisons. > [@Babale](#): > > If you said “we didn’t reason the Nazis put of their opinion” but you meant to imply something other than “therefore it is not worth reasoning with MAGAts, we will need to defeat them by force to”, please let me know what you meant. I was rebutting _your_ comments on the matter, which (as I didn’t “imply” but stated overtly) were not remotely reality-based. > [@Babale](#): > > If you’re unable to separate “you’re using the same insults the Nazis did” from “you are a Nazi and you’re going to genocide the people you’re insulting”, I don’t know how I can possibly clarify. If you’re unable to understand why repeatedly accusing people of sounding like Nazis would give them the impression you are comparing them to Nazis, I don’t know how I can possibly clarify. Mods: can we just move this fucking thing to GD? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/367 "2024-08-28T15:36:18Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > You’ve mentioned Nazis a _lot_ for an argument that wasn’t intended to draw comparisons. There’s no way this is a good faith comment. Of course I was drawing a comparison. Between your language and theirs. That doesn’t mean you’re generally comparable. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/368 "2024-08-28T15:38:15Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > If you’re unable to understand why repeatedly accusing people of sounding like Nazis would give them the impression you are comparing them to Nazis, I don’t know how I can possibly clarify. Oh, I fully understand the rhetorical strength of not acknowledging the distinction. It lets you act like I said you’re a Nazi and argue against that instead of addressing the very simple fact that when you call your political opponents maggots you sound like a Nazi, even if you are nothing like a Nazi during the rest of your day. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/369 "2024-08-28T15:45:08Z")
The conversation will go a lot more smoothly and productively, IMO, if folks: 1. Clarify what they’ve said without lingering on the issue of whether they said it correctly the first time. 2. Accept others’ clarifications of their words without lingering on the issue of whether it’s what they said the first time. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/370 "2024-08-28T15:50:47Z")
Well stated. And now one last point that I’m curious about and I think I will have looked at this from every angle. The phonetics. It would be pretty funny if this was part of the hang-up. To me, MAGAt sounds exactly like Maggot. 100% the same. This is what MAGAt/Maggot sounds like in Texas: Magg-et or Magg-it. Acceptable, Magg-ut. Never: Magg-at. And certainly not: Magg-ot. So the two way it’s actually spelled are not how I hear it. It that how everyone else says it/hears it? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/371 "2024-08-28T19:29:36Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The Nazis are a much bigger problem in the US than in Germany. Hard to stop a few radical nuts- no matter what they call themselves. The American Nazi party has … wait for it… 500 members. Out of 345,426,571 or so. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/372 "2024-08-28T19:42:20Z")
Until I see that calling people “maggots” is a specific tactic of Nazis (with a history to match) I don’t buy the argument that it is imitating Nazis. You might think it sounds like that but that’s just your opinion. “But a maggot is a kind of vermin!” Okay, well next time someone calls me a bookworm, I’ll accuse them of sounding like a Nazi. It’s a terrible argument and I give it absolutely zero consideration. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/373 "2024-08-28T19:49:02Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > So the two way it’s actually spelled are not how I hear it. It that how everyone else says it/hears it? Everyone trying to pretend that it’s “dehumanizing”, yes. No one else. > [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > The Nazis are a much bigger problem in the US than in Germany. > > Hard to stop a few radical nuts- no matter what they call themselves. The American Nazi party has … wait for it… 500 members. Out of 345,426,571 or so. While I don’t agree with @Babale’s original premise here, they’re right on this point. You don’t have to belong to “the American Nazi party” to be a _de facto_ Nazi. The Proud Boys are clearly neo-Nazi. So are other white supremacists. For that matter, so is much of Trump’s rhetoric and most of the cult that cheers it on. So, yes, the rise of neo-Nazism is a much bigger problem in America than it is in Germany, where history is still remembered and they don’t worry so much about the niceties of free speech absolutism. Neo-Nazism is on the rise in America, or at least, is a major movement whose membership numbers in the millions. Have we already forgotten Charlottesville? And yet, somehow the term “MAGAt” is a threat … to something. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/374 "2024-08-28T19:57:03Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The Proud Boys are clearly neo-Nazi. So are other white supremacists. They have maybe twice as many os the ANP. Again, you are not talking even 1% of the US population. When a group gets over 300K members- then I will be concerned. > [@wolfpup](#): > > So, yes, the rise of neo-Nazism is a much bigger problem in America than it is in Germany, So no, the rise of neo-Nazism is not a problem at all in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/375 "2024-08-28T20:00:31Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Everyone trying to pretend that it’s “dehumanizing”, yes. No one else. You’d be surprised how weird/wrong Texans pronounce things. For what it’s worth, Cambridge and Webster’s also go with the “magg-_e_t” pronunciation for maggot. How do you pronounce MAGAt, then? I’m genuinely curious. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/376 "2024-08-28T20:07:28Z")
What’s funny is that I very rarely hear anyone ever _pronounce_ the word. I see it sometimes, but it is usually being used by the Right claiming that the left shouldn’t use it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/377 "2024-08-28T20:07:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Oh, I fully understand the rhetorical strength of not acknowledging the distinction. It lets you act like I said you’re a Nazi and argue against that instead of addressing the very simple fact that when you call your political opponents maggots you sound like a Nazi, even if you are nothing like a Nazi during the rest of your day. “I wasn’t saying you were like the Nazis when I compared you to the Nazis,” is neck-and-neck with “Calling someone a MAGAt is completely different from calling them a maggot,” in terms of unconvincing arguments presented in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/378 "2024-08-28T20:18:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > So, yes, the rise of neo-Nazism is a much bigger problem in America than it is in Germany, > > So no, the rise of neo-Nazism is not a problem at all in the USA. Strangely, hundreds of reputable media reports like these disagree with you. The neo-Nazi ideology is also becoming increasingly decentralized, so the membership of any one specific group under any one specific leader isn’t very meaningful compared to the ideology itself when it’s promoted by a mainstream figure like Trump and his cultists. > **['Active club' hate groups are growing in the U.S. — and making themselves seen](https://www.npr.org/2023/07/19/1188111769/active-club-hate-groups)** > > Cells of white males have formed in at least 30 states, united around racism and an interest in mixed martial arts. Extremism researchers say they're neo-Nazis looking to mainstream their ideas. > **[Documenting Hate: New American Nazis | FRONTLINE](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/documenting-hate-new-american-nazis/)** > > Watch FRONTLINE and ProPublica's documentary investigating a neo-Nazi group, Atomwaffen Division, that has actively recruited inside the U.S. military. Again, this is what we should be worried about, instead of ridiculous academic arguments about how “MAGAt” is supposed to be pronounced and whether its usage will bring about our own moral downfall. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/379 "2024-08-28T20:22:17Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Strangely, hundreds of reputable media reports like these disagree with you. Yeah, scare news. There is always scare news, even tho the risk is de minimis. You go ahead and worry about that less than 1/0th or 1% of Americans, I will worry about the 30% who are MAGAs. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/380 "2024-08-28T21:01:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You go ahead and worry about that less than 1/0th or 1% of Americans, I will worry about the 30% who are MAGAs. What you should worry about is the large degree of overlap between the Trump cultists and the neo-Nazis. If you think the cheering rally attendees all over the country – or those who threaten violence if Trump isn’t elected, or the cheering crowds who actually perpetrated violence already – are simply looking for conservative economic policy, you’re very much mistaken. But this is wandering far away from the thread topic and I won’t participate in this hijack further. I was trying to draw a distinction between a real and present danger to a peaceful democracy and an extremely silly bit of pedagogical moralizing about the term “MAGAt”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060.md?page=20)