# Why is calling Trump Supporters MAGAts allowed? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 31, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060 "2024-07-31T14:23:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/161 "2024-08-26T14:13:23Z")
They could try leading by example. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/162 "2024-08-26T14:25:44Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > And I suppose it is at least a LITTLE racial because a black person living the same lifestyle won’t get called a “redneck”. I have a friend who grew up on a farm and self identifies as a redneck. He is black. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/163 "2024-08-26T14:32:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They could try leading by example. In other words, “there are no bad tactics, only bad targets”. Of course, our side could try leading by example, too; or not. Whether you think it is important to do so or not all depends on your epistemological reason for believing that dehumanization is bad to begin with. Once you figure out those first principles, it is easy to determine whether any given example is OK. > [@kayaker](#): > > I have a friend who grew up on a farm and self identifies as a redneck. He is black As Wikipedia explains: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Redneck is a derogatory term **mainly, but not exclusively** , applied to white Americans perceived to be crass and unsophisticated, closely associated with rural whites of the Southern United States. Emphasis mine. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/164 "2024-08-26T14:35:44Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > In other words, “there are no bad tactics, only bad targets”. No-Try using _my_ words just once. If the Republicans want us to treat them with kid gloves, they need to put on those kid gloves. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/165 "2024-08-26T14:37:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Naaaah. Plenty of people on the Left do that too. It’s more of a human trait than a Right wing trait. Perhaps so, but my point is: when our opponents do it, we call it bigotry; when we do it, it’s because they deserve it, because they are inferior scum. Taking a step back from all that, it is indeed humans doing the same kinda thing all over, but you still have two groups: 1. People who are acting in a prejudiced and bigoted fashion, and don’t see any problem with that or perhaps don’t even recognise bigotry and prejudice as any kind of a problem ever. 2. People who say they don’t like the bigotry of group 1, because bigotry and prejudice are bad, but also have their own sets of prejudice and bigotries, which are apparently fine. Group 2 should try harder to be better, is my point. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/166 "2024-08-26T14:39:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It refers to the color of skin on the necks of White agricultural workers, who bend over the crops outside all day. It’s more of a class insult than a race insult, but as I said, it’s literally based on skin color. In my view this is exactly the same kind of mischaracterization made by the OP. The term “skin color” generally (at least anywhere outside a dermatologist’s office) refers to natural skin color, and in the context of any sort of bigotry, is always racial bigotry. But calling someone a “redneck” is no more racial bigotry than calling Trump “orange”. In fact, the meaning of the term has evolved from when it was first coined over a century ago, and is now no longer even a class insult. According to **[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck)**, > … by 1975 the term had expanded in meaning beyond the poor Southerner to refer to “a bigoted and conventional person, a loutish ultra-conservative” … Writer William Safire observed that it is often used to attack white Southern conservatives, and more broadly to degrade working class and rural whites that are perceived by urban progressives to be insufficiently progressive. So in fact “redneck” is now essentially a political descriptor, generally regarded as derogatory by progressives but not necessarily by those so designated (Wikipedia: “some white Southerners have reclaimed the word [redneck], using it with pride and defiance as a self-identifier.”) This is exactly the status of MAGA or MAGAt as nouns – a political descriptor, and furthermore, one that only progressives universally regard as insulting. In fact there’s a great deal of overlap between “redneck” and “MAGAt”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/167 "2024-08-26T14:45:29Z")
Yes, it’s tiresome and counterproductive for everyone else to bend over backwards to be considerate of the Republicans when _they_ constantly act with the self-control of rabid animals. It’s never done anything but encourage them to act still worse, because there’s been no pushback for decades. Why _shouldn’t_ they act out with insults, threats and violence when people won’t so much as call them out on it, much less retaliate in kind? And after decades of that here we are with a basically insane Republican party trying to drag us into outright fascism. “They go low, we go high” not only doesn’t work, it outright undermines the people doing it and endangers everyone else as well. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/168 "2024-08-26T14:50:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No-Try using _my_ words just once. If the Republicans want us to treat them with kid gloves, they need to put on those kid gloves. Right. There are no bad tactics that shouldn’t be used under any circumstances; only bad targets, and Republicans, since they use these tactics, are good targets. So, unless they ‘put on kid glpves’, they are a good target for any tactic, including dehumanization. That’s why I said: > [@Babale](#): > > Whether you think it is important to do so or not all depends on your epistemological reason for believing that dehumanization is bad to begin with. Once you figure out those first principles, it is easy to determine whether any given example is OK. If dehumanization is bad _because it makes you a worse person to think along those lines_, then it _does not matter at all_ what Republicans want. It’s entirely about US and how WE choose to behave. On the other hand, if dehumanization is _not_ bad in and of itself because of the impact it has on the person doing the dehumanizing - if it’s a tool like any other, and dehumanizing German Nazis or Japanese Imperialists is OK because they are bad people and it’s an effective tactic in helping win the war - then it’s probably fine to dehumanize Trumpers if it helps defeat Donald Trump at the ballot box. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/169 "2024-08-26T14:50:47Z")
It’s like going to a Wimbledon Tournament ready to play a nice game of badminton, then wondering how to appease those other folks who insist on play tennis. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/170 "2024-08-26T14:51:41Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > In my view this is exactly the same kind of mischaracterization made by the OP. Given the context, I’m debating whether this quibble is too silly to respond to. I think I come down on the side of “yup.” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/171 "2024-08-26T14:53:33Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Perhaps so, but my point is: when our opponents do it, we call it bigotry; when we do it, it’s because they deserve it, because they are inferior scum Sure, and when we do it, our opponents call it bigotry while when they do it they call it “saying it like it is” or “saying what everyone is thinking”. > [@Mangetout](#): > > Group 2 should try harder to be better, is my point. I agree - if we are going to take positions like “dehumanizing language is bad in and of itself”, we should act accordingly. If we want to keep using dehumanizing language against people who we consider “bad enough”, we should stop pretending to be against dehumanization in general. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/172 "2024-08-26T14:58:20Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And after decades of that here we are with a basically insane Republican party trying to drag us into outright fascism. “They go low, we go high” not only doesn’t work, it outright undermines the people doing it and endangers everyone else as well. I agree with you, but “going low” doesn’t have to mean dehumanizing slurs. For an example of going low working VERY effectively without even remotely approaching anything off putting, look at the recent trend of calling Republicans weird. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/173 "2024-08-26T15:00:55Z")
Or calling Democrats evil degenerates bent on destroying the U.S. while raping and killing children. No, wait-That is NOT the same, is it? BTW, banning the use of the word “MAGat” will not make the use of the word “weird” o.k.-it will just mean that “weird” is the next word the Right will want banned. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/174 "2024-08-26T15:04:58Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I agree with you, but “going low” doesn’t have to mean dehumanizing slurs. For an example of going low working VERY effectively without even remotely approaching anything off putting, look at the recent trend of calling Republicans weird. Spot on. The adage about wrestling with pigs still holds true, but it’s a-okay to point out, “Jesus, they’re a bunch of pigs rolling around in the mud.” I love, love, LOVE the current “Man, those guys are weird” approach and all the variations. No more pearl-clutching or breathless outrage. That stuff never worked. In fact, it was counter-productive. “Don’t you guys ever get tired of being whiny babies?” “Just more from the weirdo brigade.” “Oh, horrors! I made sure all our schoolchildren were fed.” These are all acceptable counters, delivered with a smirk. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/175 "2024-08-26T15:07:31Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I agree with you, but “going low” doesn’t have to mean dehumanizing slurs. Simply calling them what they _are_ is a “dehumanizing slur”. Fascists, sadists, without virtue, malignant, traitors, dishonest, irrational, fanatics, just about everything one can honestly say about them is an insult. They are a conglomeration of vices and flaws. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/176 "2024-08-26T15:07:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Or calling Democrats evil degenerates bent on destroying the U.S. while raping and killing children. What does that have to do with anything? Either dehumanization is bad _in and of itself_, which is the claim the Left generally makes, in which case it doesn’t matter what Republicans call Democrats; or dehumanizing language is a tool that can be used under some circumstances, in which case, sure, Republicans calling Democrats evil degenerate groomers would justify dehumanizing them as much as you want. So, which is it? Is dehumanizing always bad because of the impact it has on the person doing the dehumanizing, or is OK if the other side is nasty enough? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/177 "2024-08-26T15:09:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > BTW, banning the use of the word “MAGat” will not make the use of the word “weird” o.k.-it will just mean that “weird” is the next word the Right will want banned. Who gives a crap about what the Right wants banned? I’m entirely focused on the way the Left views dehumanizing language as a tactic. Since “weird” is not dehumanizing, your slippery slope isn’t very slippery, or sloped, at all. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/178 "2024-08-26T15:09:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Simply calling them what they _are_ is a “dehumanizing slur”. Fascists, sadists, without virtue, malignant, traitors, dishonest, irrational, fanatics Not one of those is a term that applies to non-humans. Okay, “without virtue” and “irrational”–but they’re also both inaccurate (Hitler loved dogs, Dick Cheney was really rational) and more often applied to humans. “Maggots” is dehumanizing. “Fascist” is not. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/179 "2024-08-26T15:09:43Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Either dehumanization is bad _in and of itself_, which is the claim the Left generally makes, in which case it doesn’t matter what Republicans call Democrats Which way does your finger point-To the worst, or to the Democrats? Apparently, it _does_ matter…to you. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060/180 "2024-08-26T15:10:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which way does your finger point-To the worst, or to the Democrats? You say “finger,” singular, like he only has one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-calling-trump-supporters-magats-allowed/1005060.md?page=10)