# Why is Catcher in the Rye so beloved? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 16, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888 "2003-10-16T23:28:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![electric\_sheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/90db22/32.png) [@electric\_sheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/electric_sheep)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/21 "2003-10-20T07:27:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mouthbreather \* > \*\*OK, I’ll bite. I’ll let you slide on zillions, but name five. \*\* Steppenwolf Siddhartha The Stranger The Trial Doctor Faustus Heart of Darkness Then again, I’m not sure if I was your average teenager. ---
**Author:** ![monkeylucifer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@monkeylucifer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monkeylucifer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/22 "2003-10-20T07:27:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Krokodil \* > **Actually, I think he was reacting to an [adaptation](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041672/) of “Uncle Wiggly in Connecticut” that he didn’t much like.** I’m talking about Holden’s brother, the writer, who went out to California to have his work adapted into screenplays if I remember correctly. ---
**Author:** ![monkeylucifer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@monkeylucifer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monkeylucifer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/23 "2003-10-20T07:28:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by electric!sheep \* > \*\*Steppenwolf > Siddhartha > The Stranger > The Trial > Doctor Faustus > Heart of Darkness > > Then again, I’m not sure if I was your average teenager. \*\* The Stranger is exactly the same type of subject matter, just taken a bit further. God that book is fantastic. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/24 "2003-10-20T10:02:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gex gex \* > **:rolleyes: Yes, baby boomer pop culture explains how multiple generations, both older and younger have loved this novel. A pop star from the 60s was killed by a nut who liked the book, and hence millions respect it. Nice theory you’ve got there.** To be honest thats the only way that myself and people I went to school with heard about it, I’m not sure if any school I know of in the UK had it on reading lists for class. This then gave rise to rumours that it was a banned book, withdraw it from a library in the US and the FBI add you to a big list of people to watch etc etc If it is a decent read like a lot of others here seem to think I may pick up a copy, it was in the top 100 books on the BBC and Waterstones bookshops are offering 3 for 2 on any books from that list. I may be a little past it now to fully appreciate the book though, being so old at 24 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/25 "2003-10-20T10:19:05Z")
Imho, it was sooooo very duuuuullllll. I guess it just didn’t strike a chord with me. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/26 "2003-10-20T12:11:20Z")
(I haven’t had a computer since Friday afternoon; my apologies for responding so late.) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gex gex \* > **:rolleyes: Yes, baby boomer pop culture explains how multiple generations, both older and younger have loved this novel. A pop star from the 60s was killed by a nut who liked the book, and hence millions respect it. Nice theory you’ve got there.** I’m sorry you don’t like my theory. I still think it’s valid. > [@](#): > > **dantheman** , you obviously don’t like the book. Why can’t you accept that other people do, without having to dismiss them as mindless trendoids or influenced by the killer of The Greatest Man From The Greatest Band Of All Time? I mean, you can perhaps guess that I don’t think much of the Beatles, but it doesn’t mean I dismiss their enduring popularity as the result of their fans desire to appear respectable to their peers. At no point did I say I didn’t accept that other people do. I merely posited a theory as to why many people do like it. I’m not implying that many others have far different reasons for liking it. > [@](#): > > CITR is a well written novel with a fascinating fully drawn protagonist and universal thematic concerns. It was culturally relevant and marked the beginning of a new social trend. It has all the hallmarks of an enduring literary work. I don’t agree with your opinion, but surely you understand it’s an opinion, right? I’m entitled to have a different opinion. I didn’t find the protagonist fascinating in the least, personally. I didn’t find it culturally relevant; neither do I know what new social trend it marked. Could you elaborate? > [@](#): > > Though, I get the feeling that you’re dislike of it isn’t really because you don’t like it, but because you want to appear clever and counter cultural to the people reading the board. it gives an impression of intellectualism to other Dopers. It’s “cool” to dislike a beloved book, and that’s why you hate it. Now that’s just obnoxious. All I did was offer a theory as to why the book may be popular. If you don’t agree with that theory, that’s fine. But how about we keep personal attacks out of it? I mean after all, at least I **had** a theory. All you could do was attack my “reasons” for disliking it, which apparently have nothing to do with the book itself. That’s a bit rude, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/27 "2003-10-20T12:29:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Krokodil \* > \*\*Okay, try this: > > “Coming of age” in literature had traditionally meant transitioning from the entertaining–but ultimately unimportant–world of children into the marriage-and-job world of adults. When you make the jump, you look back on the world of youth with condescencion and contempt, because you know you’re part of the real world now. > > _Catcher in the Rye_ shows the division in a different light. Youth equals integrity, adult equals “phony.” Your generation is suddenly something you feel solidarity with, as long as you live, and your parents’ world is never yours, no matter how old you get; they will never consider you to be peers. Childhood has a lasting value beyond whatever warmhearted “lessons” it teaches you for the adult “real” world. For the first time, generational antagonism was something that lasted forever, not just until you bought into adult values. > > Yeah, other writers have covered it since, in timelier language, but Salinger’s book represents a clear break with a long and fraudulent literary tradition. Does it ring untrue for you? _On the Road_ rings a little false for me (I tried to retrace his route in 1991 and that world just isn’t there anymore. Also, his descriptions of women go no further than their hair color and whether or not he had sex with them; try selling that to an editor today), but I appreciate it for its virtues anyway. \*\* **Krokodil** , I agree with your analysis, and perhaps it’s just a matter of what rings true for the reader. I enjoyed **On the Road** , but I did find it to be muddled and overly chaotic at times, lacking nuance and description. What made it work for me was the constant change in setting. If Salinger was merely reducing the change from childhood to adulthood to one of real versus phony, I’m not sure if I buy that as an evocative theme. It’s oversimplifying things, as **Wendell** says. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Quack_ > dantheman, you said that you think that a lot of people like it because it’s a counterculture parable and they only read it because it is assigned and labeled as a “classic”. Well, if every book that was counterculture and a “classic” was as popular as CITR, we’d be having debates about The Awakening and The Scarlet Letter every week. Not necessarily. This was viewed as a counterculture book while it was fresh off the presses; The Awakening and The Scarlet Letter are much older and not as fresh in the minds of students and other readers. This isn’t to say those books aren’t revolutionary, it’s just that perhaps their appear is somewhat muted, owing to the passage of time. **Pushkin** , you may have touched on another reason for its popularity (and I’m talking mass popularity) - the fact that it was on some banned lists. Those always help with popularity. Not that it was so awful as to not be popular all on its own, but I think said popularity was aided by its being banned and the unique reclusiveness of the author. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/28 "2003-10-20T12:41:01Z")
“Though, I get the feeling that you’re dislike of it isn’t really because you don’t like it, but because you want to appear clever and counter cultural to the people reading the board. it gives an impression of intellectualism to other Dopers. It’s “cool” to dislike a beloved book, and that’s why you hate it.” The counter argument could also be made, of course. People like things because they think they’re supposed to like them - everyone else thinks it is a classic, it must be a classic. I don’t have any strong opinions one way or another about the book - never understood why it is supposed to be a piece of classic literature, but I read it as required for the class and quickly forgot all about it. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/29 "2003-10-20T13:03:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by electric!sheep \* > \*\*Steppenwolf > Siddhartha > The Stranger > The Trial > Doctor Faustus > Heart of Darkness > > Then again, I’m not sure if I was your average teenager. \*\* Sorry, these won’t cut it. **dantheman’s** statement was that CitR is outdated and there’s plenty of books “these days” which do it better. Without checking original pub dates from your list (IOW, I could be wrong), but I think that only Conrad’s Heart of Darkness was written after CitR. I’d still like 5 modern books that do the coming-of-age thing better than CitR from **dantheman**. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/30 "2003-10-20T13:16:14Z")
Hmm, I see Heart of Darkness was much older than I thought. For some reason I thought that was written in the late 50s. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/31 "2003-10-20T13:40:12Z")
**mouthbreather** , it’s all relative. If I did come up with five books, anyone could shoot them down because they don’t agree with the opinion that any of those five depicted coming of age better than CiTR. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/32 "2003-10-20T16:58:14Z")
I know it is – I am trying to get your point of reference. I promise not to shoot anything down, I’m just curious as to which titles you think have done it better. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/33 "2003-10-20T17:36:55Z")
I can’t name five. I was using hyperbole, and I didn’t use it well. I have no idea how true-to-life present-day teen-and-young-adult books deal with the issue of angst. But it is relative; do more teens relate to Holden Caulfield now than to any teen/young adult character in modern fiction? I’m not so sure that’s the case. Since I’m not a teen, I cannot be certain, but I’d be surprised if they could relate to him as much as teens and young adults did in the fifties and sixties. ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/34 "2003-10-20T17:45:25Z")
This is a banned book and tops the list of: The Most Frequently Banned Books info from: Banned in the U.S.A. by Herbert N. Foerstel ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/35 "2003-10-20T17:50:23Z")
I mentioned this thread to my sister and she suggested _The Chocolate Wars_ (which I haven’t read) as something more modern and convincing that covers the same basic ground. I’m not sure you should dismiss CITR just because it’s set in a prep school. But if working-class coming of age is what you want, I’d throw these two in: _Portnoy’s Complaint Five Finger Discount_ ---
**Author:** ![electric\_sheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/90db22/32.png) [@electric\_sheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/electric_sheep)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/36 "2003-10-20T19:12:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mouthbreather \* > **Sorry, these won’t cut it.** As a response to that particular statement, and a contribution to this thread, they certainly do. \*\* > [@](#): > > **dantheman’s** [position] was that CitR is outdated and there’s plenty of books “these days” which do it better.\*\* You’re right, I missed his original post. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![buzzie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@buzzie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buzzie)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/37 "2003-10-21T19:46:09Z")
Although this is a little off the topic, I just had to share it. When I was in high school I had to read TCITR for one of my english classes. One year later, I borrowed the book from the teacher, for an essay that I had to write for another class. I made the mistake of leaving the book on the kitchen table. The next morning, my dad handed me a paper bag, all taped up with a note on it. The note said something about what is to be done with garbage. In the bag was the book torn in half. I was told to take it to school with me and give it to my teacher. Fortunately, I had a good relationship with him and he had a good sense of humor. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_of\_the\_CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Earl\_of\_the\_CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_of_the_CC)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/38 "2003-10-21T20:17:54Z")
Electric!sheep, please don’t tell me you actually think Siddhartha is about teen angst. It’s very very far from being about teen angst, and I think that characterizing it as such is slighting it. ---
**Author:** ![Lisa-go-Blind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Lisa-go-Blind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lisa-go-Blind)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/39 "2003-10-21T20:43:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\* Since I’m not a teen, I cannot be certain, but I’d be surprised if they could relate to him as much as teens and young adults did in the fifties and sixties. \*\* I’m eighteen years old, and **The Catcher in the Rye** is one of my top three books, and Holden Caulfield is probably my favorite male literary character. Teenagers today still feel alienated from adults and feel like their lives are a mess. Holden is an icon because he did what most of us dream of doing–he stuck to his guns and rebelled against “the establishment.” As a teenage girl, Holden also reflects the ideal boyfriend–intellegent, well-read, artistic, idealistic and sensitive (see his scenes with his younger sister), as well as the “mysterious loner” aspect. When I read the novel, I feel Salinger’s soul poured into the book, and it affects me. Maybe in ten years I’ll feel differently, but isn’t that the purpose of a “teen classic”? To add to **Krokodil** ’s list on working-class bildungromans (as opposed to preppie **Catcher in the Rye** ), I’d like to add **The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner**. The eponymous novella is the most obvious example, but all of the stories touch on the same idea. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888/40 "2003-10-21T21:17:51Z")
I have this theory that there are “CitR people” and “Franny and Zooey people.” (you could also call them “real in a fake world people” and “smart in a stupid world people.”) At their hearts, both books have rather similar themes – t’s all about what resonates with your own experience. I never thought I was “real” but I did think I was smart… I’m a F&Z Person, CitR does nothing for me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-catcher-in-the-rye-so-beloved/207888.md?page=3)