# Why is \[children's\] Christian media so cheesy most of the time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [January 28, 2021, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720 "2021-01-28T22:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/102 "2021-02-02T01:29:04Z")
In theology, it’s a big deal. In practice, it’s a fairly subtle distinction. The Christians hold that Adam and Eve’s act somehow spiritually polluted all their unborn descendants, so that we now need to accept Jesus in order to cure the original-sin cooties. The Jews note that Genesis doesn’t actually say anything of the kind. For Jews, each soul is a clean slate, and it is at least theoretically possible for someone to go their entire life without sinning (some Jews might disagree with that, but they wouldn’t cite Genesis 3 to prove their point). But in general, Jewish culture and religion, like Christian, holds that a person making their own decisions in life without benefit of religious teaching is practically certain to screw up horribly. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/103 "2021-02-02T03:15:26Z")
Yes, and so? _Prepare yourself you know it’s a must_ _Gotta have a friend in Jesus_ _So you know that when you die_ _He’s gonna recommend you_ _To the spirit in the sky (spirit in the sky)_ _…_ _Never been a sinner, I never sinned_ _I got a friend in Jesus_ _So you know that when I die_ _He’s gonna set me up_ _with the spirit in the sky_ ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/104 "2021-02-02T05:00:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Never been a sinner, I never sinned The amusing part is how unChristian that statement is. As @Thing.Fish mentioned, original sin makes the statement blasphemous (as you are basically claiming yourself to be God, or if you are Catholic, either God or akin to Mary, the Mother of Jesus/God). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/105 "2021-02-02T06:46:00Z")
Because a [Turn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_(angle)) is a unit of angular measure. One Turn = 360 or 2 π radians. Google thinks you want to know what 1 Turn factorial multiplied out is. For some reason it’s doing it as (Turn!(Turn!))(Turn!) rather than Turn!^3 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/106 "2021-02-02T12:25:10Z")
When my son was a kid, he discovered rap as a music genre. I introduced him to hip hop and reggae. Turns out he really liked hip hop. One day he showed me five hip hop CDs a friend of his mom had given him. I’d never heard of the bands. Meanwhile, as I’m looking over the cd cases, my son started laughing. They were christian hip hop. And they sucked. My son, ever the entrepreneur, traded them with his less savvy classmates for “good music”. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/107 "2021-02-02T15:11:50Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > When my son was a kid, he discovered rap as a music genre. I introduced him to hip hop and reggae. Turns out he really liked hip hop. For the benefit of this terminally unhip middle-aged white guy, what’s the difference between rap and hip-hop? Thought they were the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/108 "2021-02-02T15:17:05Z")
Sure, but was he a _Christian musician_ in the sense of marketing himself as such? That’s my point- there are lots of bands who may be composed of Christians and have Christian themes in their music, but they’re not _Christian bands_ in terms of how they market themselves. In general, those bands who market themselves like that are usually not so talented and steer clear of things that would crack that sunshine and roses “Christian” attitude. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/109 "2021-02-02T15:17:08Z")
Old white guy here, tragically unhip. I’ve heard it explained that rap refers only to the vocal pattern/delivery, while hip-hop can be rap, but it’s more about the lifestyle as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/110 "2021-02-02T18:39:25Z")
- [Joe Garrelli](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0736579/?ref_=tt_ch) : I thought you liked rap. [Bill McNeal](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0367005/?ref_=tt_ch) : I did, but that was before I knew it had words. [Catherine Duke](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0018554/?ref_=tt_ch) : Wait, you didn’t know it had words? Well, why did you think they called rap? [Bill McNeal](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0367005/?ref_=tt_ch) : I thought it was just because of the rhythm. You know, rap-rap, rappity-tap. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/111 "2021-02-02T18:48:31Z")
No. Altho you are born with Original Sin (at least for Catholics), you, yourself might not ever personally sin. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/112 "2021-02-02T18:49:20Z")
Does, a True Scotsman have to wear a kilt? 😝 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/113 "2021-02-02T19:09:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No. Altho you are born with Original Sin (at least for Catholics), you, yourself might not ever personally sin. Sounds a bit too close to the heresy of Pelagianism to me. It seems to me that the doctrine of Immaculate Conception was created because it was deemed unlikely Mary could live a life without sin (which Catholics teach) if she was tainted by Original Sin. Granted, I guess an infant may never personally sin 😉 , but the singer is a bit older than that. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/114 "2021-02-02T19:23:54Z")
wiki **Pelagianism** is a [heterodox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterodox) [Christian theological](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_theology) position which holds that the [original sin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin) did not taint [human nature](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_nature) and that humans have the [free will](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will) to achieve human perfection without divine [grace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_in_Christianity). [Pelagius](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelagius) (c. 355 – c. 420 AD), a British ascetic and philosopher, taught that God could not command believers to do the impossible, and therefore it must be possible to satisfy all divine commandments. He also taught that it was unjust to punish one person for the sins of another; therefore, infants are born blameless. Pelagius accepted no excuse for sinful behavior and taught that all Christians, regardless of their station in life, should live unimpeachable, sinless lives. To a large degree, “Pelagianism” was defined by its opponent [Augustine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine) and exact definitions remain elusive. Although Pelagianism had considerable support in the contemporary Christian world, especially among the Roman elite and [monks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monk), it was attacked by Augustine and his supporters who had opposing views on grace, predestination and free will. Augustine proved victorious in the [Pelagian controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelagian_controversy); Pelagianism was decisively condemned at the 418 [Council of Carthage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Carthage) and is still regarded as heretical by the [Roman Catholic Church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church) and [Eastern Orthodox Church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church). Note only two Churches still think it is heresy . ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/115 "2021-02-02T19:32:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Note only two Churches still think it is heresy . Many Protestant churches hold to the Roman view. I know that in Lutheranism and Anglicanism/Episcopalianism Pelagianism is a heresy (it’s explicitly listed in the Thirty Nine Articles of the Church of England: [Thirty-nine Articles - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-nine_Articles) ). I believe that holds for Methodism (which offshoot from Anglicanism) as well. Baptists/Non-denominationals/Pentecosts all hold to Original Sin - the theory of atonement they prefer, penal substitution, demands it. There are some Holiness churches who do believe in human perfection (and some Methodists). And the Eastern Orthodox have some views that may border on that (theosis), but the Eastern Orthodox are clear that any salvation is by God’s grace and not human free will. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/116 "2021-02-02T20:07:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Note only two Churches still think it is heresy . That add up to what, 60% of nominal Christianity worldwide? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2021, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/117 "2021-02-03T03:20:29Z")
My two favorite Christian movie trailers. C Me Dance [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-7TM3Udip4) Time Changer [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/HHbTcUhGJzw/maxresdefault.jpg "Time Changer (2002) | Trailer | Gavin MacLeod | Hal Linden | Jennifer O'Neill | Paul Rodriguez") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHbTcUhGJzw) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2021, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/118 "2021-02-03T04:20:57Z")
My favorite Christian movie is a Troma (Toxic Avenger, Class Of Nukem High) film. For many reasons, I don’t see it playing at a Christian film festival. But, seriously, the message of the film is- Evil comes in many forms and only faith in Jesus can save you. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/IlHcFHTK7HY/maxresdefault.jpg "Def by Temptation ≣ 1990 ≣ Trailer") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlHcFHTK7HY) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2021, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/119 "2021-02-03T11:44:37Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Frankly, it’s because people of lessor talent are making the material. I disagree with this, pretty emphatically. Martin Scorsese’s _Silence_ is a _very_ Christian film, a deep and thoughtful meditation on the nature of faith and the moral conflicts that arise in the collision of beliefs (and one of the greatest movies of a great filmmaker’s career). But most of what we think of as “the Christian audience” will never see it, because it’s outside their comfort zone for their preferred entertainment. In other words, it’s not the limitations of the artistic creators — I believe the audience is inherently self-limiting in its choices. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’ll just add that, as far as I can tell, the primary target audience for “Christian media” (Christian radio, Christian bookstores, contemporary Christian music, etc.) seems to be, not Christians in general, but specifically Evangelicals. Exactly. They will never see _Silence_ because it doesn’t reinforce what they already believe or reassure them for what they already know. It asks challenging questions about faith, knowing that only by wrestling with doubt can one’s faith be strengthened. Evangelicals are allergic to doubt. > [@Miller](#): > > An media created to meet a specific market demand is often going to be lacking in areas not directly related to that demand. Look at almost any genre, and it’s the same. Strongly agree. Which is why I look at stuff like _Left Behind_ and the _God’s Not Dead_ franchise as, literally, subsets of pornography. It may not be _sexual_ pornography — but it’s certainly _emotional and spiritual_ pornography. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2021, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/120 "2021-02-03T12:31:40Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Martin Scorsese’s _Silence_ is a _very_ Christian film That reminds me of Black Robe (1991) – a brilliant and intelligent movie about Jesuits in Canada in the 17th century. It’s also very Christian, in that it shows the deep and sincere faith of the Jesuits. It explores honestly the complexities and realities of that time and place. It doesn’t impose modern perspectives. The characters are three dimensional, and it’s never simplistic or one-sided. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/hVfMsZMiSzY/hqdefault.jpg "Black Robe Official Trailer #1 - August Schellenberg Movie (1991) HD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVfMsZMiSzY) ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2021, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720/121 "2021-02-03T13:32:39Z")
This discussion reminds me of a course I took in college, called “Christianity in Literature.” We read and discussed a number of novels with Christian themes. I can’t recall the entire reading list, but off the top of my head, we read Camus’s _The Plague_, Tolstoy’s _The Death of Ivan Ilyich_, “The Grand Inquisitor” section of _The Brothers Karamazov_, Kazantzakis’s _Last Temptation of Christ_, Graham Greene’s _The Power and the Glory_, and several of Flannery O’Connor’s stories. All works that thoughtfully explore various aspects of Christianity. None of them books that you’re likely to find in a typical Christian bookstore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-childrens-christian-media-so-cheesy-most-of-the-time/931720.md?page=7)