# Why is Chinaman considered a slur? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 11, 2004, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548 "2004-07-11T08:18:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/41 "2004-07-13T15:15:06Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > I think I have found the solution: > > Ahem… > > _Chinagentleman._ I, personally, prefer the term _Chinaperson_. Sexist. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/42 "2004-07-13T17:51:35Z")
I guess wording is all a matter of context: > [@](#): > > Stan: Hey isn’t that kid Kevin Chinese? > Kyle: Yeah you’re from China. > Kevin: No I’m from America. My parents are Chinese. > Stan: Tell us how the Chinese play dodgeball! > Kevin: I have no idea dude. > Cartman: Come on rice picker! > Chef: Hey, hey, hey! Children, that’s not cool. You don’t make fun of somebody because of their ethnicity. > Stan: You don’t? > Kyle: But Chef, you just ripped on Chinese people. > Chef: No, no, no, no ,no, that’s different. I made fun of them because they are from China. You see it’s not ok to make fun of an American because they’re black brown or whatever. But it is ok to make fun of foreigners because they’re from another country. From “South Park.” ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/43 "2004-07-13T18:34:46Z")
So . . . . . if I were to get a bunch of my friends together and form the “South Carolinian Anti-Defamation Squad” (SCADS) and we were to issue a statement that we found the term “South Carolinian” to be offensive and henceforth wanted to be known as “Supreme Overlords of Creation,” then all of the politically correct types would have to go along with it? Hmmmmm . . . . . I could get into this. 🆒 RR ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/44 "2004-07-13T21:09:53Z")
Well, people who are civil would stop calling you “South Carolinian,” but they might opt to just call you “ **RiverRunner** ” instead. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/45 "2004-07-13T22:32:49Z")
I’m reminded of a recent furor over the historic name of a lake in the north of British Columbia-- Chinaman Lake. Chinaman Lake was so-called because some early settlers (who were Chinese) met their doom there trying to make it through a harsh winter. Some argued that changing the name would be an insult to those men and women, since the lake had been named “in their honour.” That never seemed like a very compelling argument to me, since, at the time that the lake was named, Chinese were widely regarded as lesser beings than white folk. Their labour, which did so much to open up Western Canada, was paid for at a rate that was half of the legal minimum a white man could be paid. When Vancouver was incorporated, there were riots caused by men trying to prevent Chinese Canadians from voting, and the solution to the violence was an law prohibiting non-whites from voting in civic elections. If “Chinamen” were considered to be “worth” as much as white men, that party may have been adequately provisioned to survive the winter. “Chinaman” is considered a slur because that’s the context it has. ---
**Author:** ![bodswood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@bodswood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bodswood)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/46 "2004-07-14T02:04:03Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > I think you’re oversimplifying. I’m sure most Chinese people have no trouble being identified as Chinese; the irritation (or so I gather from Asian friends of various origins) is the equation of Asian and Chinese. The equation of Asian and Chinese is being promoted by the Chinese themselves (i.e. those with power) in Greater China (PRC, Macau, Hong Kong, Taiwan) and in Singapore. Thus, what (according to the newsclippings I have) was referred to predominantly as ‘Chinese values’ or ‘Confucian values’ a decade or more ago is now commonly referred to as ‘Asian values’. There may be many reasons for this: a) a desire to appear non-sinocentric (which some commentators have reinterpreted as hegemony); b) a realisation that the Analects of Confucius do not always support what is commonly meant by ‘Confucian values’; c) a desire to be more inclusive of minorities (e.g. the Tibetans in PRC, the indigenous people of Taiwan, and the Malays, Tamils and Hindus in Singapore) - this has also been interpreted in some quarters as hegemony and an example of creeping cultural imperialism. This might go some way to explaining the irritation of some of Excalibre’s friends from the Asian continent. ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/47 "2004-07-14T02:35:42Z")
On a slight hijack, I was once called a “chink” in middle school. I had no idea what the word meant at the time, but I gathered from his attitude towards me that he obviously didn’t think highly of me. It took me years to overcome the pain I felt whenever I remembered my first encounter with overt hatred for no apprent reason. ---
**Author:** ![lemon\_martini2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3be4f8/32.png) [@lemon\_martini2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lemon_martini2)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/48 "2004-07-14T10:22:38Z")
My problem is with the PC people who say that because they don’t like it,it will offend everyone.Just as an example,a few years ago our city council God bless’em decided that Christmas would be renamed Winterval so as ‘not to offend persons of other faiths’.Well what happened was the ‘persons of other faiths’ got annoyed about the bad publicity this got and made a statement saying ‘we are not offended by this being called Christmas and would you please stop telling us what will offend is.If people want to use [a non-PC term] then let them.If it bothers us,we can so say.’ This new hate crime thing also means that something is offensive if ‘someone else perceives it to be’.So I go and greet my black mate with the salutation ‘Hey nigga,how you doing’ which he does not object to at all-he has told me that he is happy to be called it as a term of affection. A bod walking down the road hears this and considers it offensive. I then end up accused of a ‘crime’ where the ‘victim’ feels I have done nothing wrong… ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/49 "2004-07-14T10:54:37Z")
> [@lemon\_martini2](#): > > Just as an example,a few years ago our city council God bless’em decided that Christmas would be renamed Winterval so as ‘not to offend persons of other faiths’. And here I thought the term denoted the length of time between Microsoft Critical Updates. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/50 "2004-07-15T00:26:52Z")
> [@lemon\_martini2](#): > > This new hate crime thing also means that something is offensive if ‘someone else perceives it to be’.So I go and greet my black mate with the salutation ‘Hey nigga,how you doing’ which he does not object to at all-he has told me that he is happy to be called it as a term of affection. A bod walking down the road hears this and considers it offensive. I then end up accused of a ‘crime’ where the ‘victim’ feels I have done nothing wrong… It’s not a crime just because someone takes offense. Get a grip! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Universe_Lashes_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/51 "2004-07-15T02:11:30Z")
> [@iwakura43](#): > > Because it’s simply _not_ the preferred nomenclature… man… > > Asian-American, _please_. We’re not talking about the people who built the fucking railroads here! (at least one person got it. and i opened this thread just to make a comment about preferred nomenclature.) ---
**Author:** ![lemon\_martini2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3be4f8/32.png) [@lemon\_martini2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lemon_martini2)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/52 "2004-07-15T09:48:22Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > It’s not a crime just because someone takes offense. Get a grip! It is in Britain. [QUOTE] The Stephen Lawrence Inquiry Report (recommendation 12) defines a racist incident as "any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim **or any other person"** The definition of a homophobic incident can be adopted by analogy with the definition of a racist incident: “any incident which is perceived to be homophobic by the victim **or any other person** (that is directed to impact on those perceived to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender)”. So if another person has a perception that something is racist,then it is a crime. ---
**Author:** ![lemon\_martini2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3be4f8/32.png) [@lemon\_martini2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lemon_martini2)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/53 "2004-07-15T09:50:23Z")
And at least in our beloved sport of cricket,the delightful bowling action known as a ‘Chinaman’ will continue to be called such 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/54 "2004-07-15T10:27:29Z")
[QUOTE=lemon\_martini2] It is in Britain. > [@](#): > > The Stephen Lawrence Inquiry Report (recommendation 12) defines a racist incident as "any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim **or any other person"** > > The definition of a homophobic incident can be adopted by analogy with the definition of a racist incident: “any incident which is perceived to be homophobic by the victim **or any other person** (that is directed to impact on those perceived to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender)”. > > So if another person has a perception that something is racist,then it is a crime. It makes is a racist _incident_, not necessarily a crime. The purpose of this is that all racist incidents should be investigated _as if_ a crime has been committed, until the truth is established either way. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548/55 "2004-07-15T10:50:44Z")
Chinaman in the early half of the last century in America was definately a slur. You have the Agatha Christie quote earlier. Watch the movie “Chinatown” with Jack nicholson, and listen to the part where he tells his “Chinaman” joke. Now, I’ll grant you to someone growing up in the past 20 years probably doesn’t have a clue of the historic context. my father who served in combat in WW2 and Korea doesn’t use “Chinaman” as a complement (and thankfully no longer has this habit at least in my presence). As for Oriental, it’s been debated on the boards quite a bit. I actually changed my view following a 6 page thread. Long story short, Oriental was a colonial word that was inherently negative or at best neutral. It also was used more for Persia/India that the current American meaning for Asian which is generally East Asia. Oriental is not a rug or at least didn’t used to be 20 years ago. I really dislike this catchphrase. Maybe it’s time for a new Oriental/Asian thread. I don’t have the bookmark on my laptop, but there is a site that describes how the word Asian American came into being in the 60’s in Berkeley. I’ll try to get it in a week when I get home if this thread is still alive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-chinaman-considered-a-slur/254548.md?page=2)