# Why is Christmas on December 25? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 23, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-christmas-on-december-25/336926 "2005-12-23T03:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-christmas-on-december-25/336926/21 "2005-12-23T19:05:59Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > I recently heard that the whole “pagan festival” angle might be all wrong: that where the Christmas celebration occured, there’s little evidence of any kind of notable festivities at that time. In fact, It suggested that the pagan festival may have been started by Christmas, actually trying to lure people back by having their own festival at that time! “…little evidence of any kind of notable festivities at that time…”? We present to you the Roman celebration of [Saturnalia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia). One would not encounter newborn ewes any time before mid-February. Christmas–as the birthday of young master Jesus–is yet another in a line of post-hoc rationalizations to retrofit the cultural belief system of (most) Christians to some semblence of alignment with the statements in the Christian bible. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-christmas-on-december-25/336926/22 "2005-12-23T19:08:58Z")
I don’t think I overstated Cecil’s point. Yes, he calls it a hypothesis, but he also calls it “the most tenable hypothesis,” which means that it’s the one with the best evidence to support it (so far). This means that this is the answer that Cecil is going with, bar any additional evidence to the contrary. In a matter such as this, that’s as good as it gets. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-christmas-on-december-25/336926/23 "2005-12-23T19:33:33Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > “…little evidence of any kind of notable festivities at that time…”? We present to you the Roman celebration of [Saturnalia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia). > > One would not encounter newborn ewes any time before mid-February. Christmas–as the birthday of young master Jesus–is yet another in a line of post-hoc rationalizations to retrofit the cultural belief system of (most) Christians to some semblence of alignment with the statements in the Christian bible. > > Stranger Saturnalia was quite a bit earlier in the year. See my cite from the Catholic Ency which dismisses the Saturnalia hypothesis out of hand. By the time the Christians wanted a Holiday for Christ’s birth, Saturnalia was pretty well a dead letter, and had- to a extent- been replaced by Natalis Invicti, which was then replaced by Xmas. Spiff- I agree it’s a tenable hypothesis. In fact it’s likely the best out there. But- it’s not a _fact_ as is commonly stated. Freddy, I think that Julius reset the Calendar so that the Solstice was on the 21st (as is correct). And, it does drift by about a day a century under the Julian Calendar. By the time of Pope Gregory it was on Jan 8th. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-christmas-on-december-25/336926/24 "2005-12-23T19:48:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And, it does drift by about a day a century under the Julian Calendar. By the time of Pope Gregory it was on Jan 8th. It drifts _earlier_ each century, not later. At the time of Pope Gregory it was on 12/11. The Gregorian conversion _skipped days_; it didn’t add days. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-christmas-on-december-25/336926/25 "2005-12-23T22:53:15Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I don’t see how that implies he wasn’t. It seems to show that people didn’t know he was born in Bethlehem. > > It’s reasonable to assume most people didn’t know he was born in Bethlehem. If you asked Jesus where he grew up, he’d probably say, “Egypt.” Nowhere else in John does the author or narrator of the gospel say that Jesus is born in Bethlehem, nor is anyone else quoted as saying “But Jesus _was_ born in Bethlehem”. Bethlehem is only mentioned in John in that one passage. Thus, the Gospel of John doesn’t come right out and say “Jesus wasn’t born in Bethlehem”, but it does _imply_ that. (Or implies that as far as the author of the Gospel of John knows, he wasn’t.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-christmas-on-december-25/336926.md?page=1)