# Why is counterfeiting so prevalent in China? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 21, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-counterfeiting-so-prevalent-in-china/586294 "2011-06-21T15:23:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-counterfeiting-so-prevalent-in-china/586294/41 "2011-06-23T17:28:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Nah, I don’t have anyone on ignore. I did a search for “ban” and didn’t see anyone else commenting on it, so I thought I was first. No biggie. Can’t read you. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-counterfeiting-so-prevalent-in-china/586294/42 "2011-06-23T19:48:26Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > This. Once China starts generating a lot of intellectual property that appeals to the rest of the world, I predict a sudden shift in their attitude toward copyright and trademark. You are assuming that they’d feel that they couldn’t sue for IP protection in countries with strong laws without improving their laws. Based on their record, this seems unlikely. And I don’t think “but they do it” would be a good defense, so I see no reason why they’d feel they would have to enforce the laws any more than they do now. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-counterfeiting-so-prevalent-in-china/586294/43 "2011-06-24T04:03:53Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You are assuming that they’d feel that they couldn’t sue for IP protection in countries with strong laws without improving their laws. Based on their record, this seems unlikely. And I don’t think “but they do it” would be a good defense, so I see no reason why they’d feel they would have to enforce the laws any more than they do now. Thailand is a case in point. They’re quick to sue for violation of Thai artists’ IP rights in nearby countries even while dragging their heels on pressuring local piracy of Western goods. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-counterfeiting-so-prevalent-in-china/586294/44 "2011-06-24T04:54:00Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Thailand is a case in point. They’re quick to sue for violation of Thai artists’ IP rights in nearby countries even while dragging their heels on pressuring local piracy of Western goods. :mad: We need to start making some pirated Thai prostitutes! **That’ll** hit 'em where they live! ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-counterfeiting-so-prevalent-in-china/586294/45 "2011-06-24T04:58:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :mad: We need to start making some pirated Thai prostitutes! **That’ll** hit 'em where they live! Not sure it’s possibe to fake the real thing. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-counterfeiting-so-prevalent-in-china/586294/46 "2011-06-24T04:59:59Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Not sure it’s possibe to fake the real thing. 😉 Siamese cat, cantharides, how hard can it be?! **(Too** hard, actually, if you’re not careful with the cantharides.) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-counterfeiting-so-prevalent-in-china/586294/47 "2011-06-24T05:06:55Z")
**"How hard can it be."** _Snerk_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-counterfeiting-so-prevalent-in-china/586294/48 "2011-07-02T22:56:26Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Very true. I suspect that many of the counterfeits are made on the same assembly lines as the genuine articles. How hard would it be to run an extra few thousand on the line after completing the order for the name brand? I’m shocked that _everyone_ who knows how to spell economics did not know this on an instinctive level… ten years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-counterfeiting-so-prevalent-in-china/586294/49 "2011-07-02T23:12:54Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I think it is a mix of things. Culture does play a role. China has never put a lot of value on originality. From the old imperial exams (which consisted largely of quoting classic book at length) to traditional art (which is largely about copying masters) to the widespread plaguerism that almost defines Chinese academia, there has just never been much of a notion that people have a moral obligation to come up with their own material. It is a very different way of thinking about IP. > > Added to that is a poor country with the technical and logistical capacity to create and distribute pirate goods, little ability or motivation to police it (indeed ripping off the West has some appeal for many people), a local consumer base that has never paid for media and isn’t about to start now, and a business culture with little sympathy for those that cannot monetize their work or those who do not take what advantages they can. > > IP, of course, is not the only place where China’s business prctices, for whatever reason, are harmfu. We are talking about the land of poisoned baby food and cooking oil skimmed from public sewers and clarified with carcinogens. China either needs to develop the extenal controls or internal discipline to stop its businesses from hurting people, something I think will take a long time due to a culture that avoids personal responsibility and makes it easy for people to close their eyes to what is happening in front of them (both things that are useful to an autocratic regime.) And why would they do any of that when the current path they are taking has resulted in astronomical growth and a middle class that is set to reach [700 million](http://shanghaiist.com/2010/07/26/chinas_middle_class_will_reach_700.php) by 2020 even as their population is [set to decline](http://english.gov.cn/2005-08/08/content_27315.htm) (or already has begun to decline)? China steals foreign IP right off their offshored factory floors but may prosecute piracy of domestic goods. This is corrupt and hypocritical but what does China stand to lose? Most of all, _what are Western governments going to do about it_? Nothing. We’re going to be like Jim Carrey in “Liar, Liar”. The Western governments are gonna TAKE IT. Up whatever shipping lane and shipping dock that China decides to shove it. Our governments are gonna take it and they will make us consumers like it and accept it. Especially now that the [World Trade Organization](http://www.article-online.com/showarticle.php?article_id=813) has repeatedly made it clear in a roundabout way that anti-dumping tariffs (the only effective defense we have against counterfeits) are illegal. (Dumping = that’s counterfeit goods, folks.) Sure, we’ll get some lube thrown our way now and then when the news media shows some politician grunting and rattling his anti-piracy saber for the cameras. But the next day we’ll get another shipment of counterfeit goods and we’ll be made to like it because it’s cheap. If our Government doesn’t bend us over, the WTO will. What idiot of a country wants to waste trillions on R&D when they can make a killing by stealing it from someone else? China won’t change. Why change what is not broken? The golden goose is laying plenty of eggs, let it sit where it sits. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-counterfeiting-so-prevalent-in-china/586294/50 "2011-07-07T19:57:42Z")
I was in machinery design and build for many years. We knew when we built a machine for a Korean company or some other Asian companies, they would reverse engineer it. We tried to keep from giving them a complete set of detail drawings because that made it easy for them. But once they have a line or system that comes from America, they will work on it and improve it themselves. Future innovation is done by those who live with a system. Once we moved our manufacturing base abroad, we also moved the innovation and design improvements with it. They will be at the forefront of future technology. Perhaps we could steal from them in the future? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-counterfeiting-so-prevalent-in-china/586294.md?page=2)