# Why is curlcoat allowed to troll on here? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 21, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025 "2009-09-21T23:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/101 "2009-09-23T04:12:41Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No, the “government” isn’t paying for healthcare, the taxpayers are. And as much as 46% of the population doesn’t pay federal income taxes, at all. Of course, they want “free health care”, why wouldn’t they? Something for nothing, and your chicks for free. > > You don’t see a problem with that? :dubious: I don’t see a problem with using benefits that the government provides if you qualify for them. I especially don’t see a problem with it if you are working poor, but trying to better yourself so that you can join the ranks of people who do pay federal income tax. torie is doing exactly what you would ask for of someone receiving benefits-- trying to make it so she never has to receive them again. So no, I don’t have a problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/102 "2009-09-23T04:18:10Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > I didn’t expect you to see it that way. Is it anyone who disagrees that you consider judging you or just anyone asking? I couldn’t quite figure out what you were doing. > [@](#): > > I haven’t told you that you should have aborted or anything like that. And that’s why I had no problem with you asking, because you seemed to be doing so fairly respectfully. > [@](#): > > Just that if you want to go to school and keep yourself off government assistance in the long run (which is what you say you want) I was just wondering why you didn’t wait until you could afford to do that. Because it’s possible that I may never get to that point without the assistance. > [@](#): > > And now, if it’s okay with Rubystreak, I’m done with this topic. Thanks for the answers **torie** , you certainly didn’t have to provide them. We just see things differently, that’s all. I guess we do. It’s ok, different life experiences produce different viewpoints. That’s what makes life so interesting. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/103 "2009-09-23T04:24:07Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No, the “government” isn’t paying for healthcare, the taxpayers are. And as much as 46% of the population doesn’t pay federal income taxes, at all. Of course, they want “free health care”, why wouldn’t they? Something for nothing, and your chicks for free. > > You don’t see a problem with that? :dubious: No, the government pays for it. That’s democracy. The taxes are lawfully passed and the funds lawfully collected and redistributed. I gather you don’t like that, so win some elections, or engage in armed insurrection, or institute a Galtian general strike and use social insurance yourself. That’s what you “producers” are known for, right? Making things happen? And if these aren’t realistic options, that perhaps, philosophically, if you’re not willing to make them work, then maybe you haven’t really earned your wealth after all. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/104 "2009-09-23T04:24:59Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I don’t see a problem with using benefits that the government provides if you qualify for them. The government doesn’t provide benefits, the taxpayer does, usually against their will. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/105 "2009-09-23T04:27:22Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No, the “government” isn’t paying for healthcare, the taxpayers are. And as much as 46% of the population doesn’t pay federal income taxes, at all. Of course, they want “free health care”, why wouldn’t they? Something for nothing, and your chicks for free. > > You don’t see a problem with that? :dubious: How does this relate to torie’s situation? Since they’re both working, wouldn’t it be safe to assume they are both taxpayers? What free ride are they getting? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/106 "2009-09-23T04:27:35Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > No, the government pays for it. That’s democracy. The taxes are lawfully passed and the funds lawfully collected and redistributed. Redistribution of wealth does not a democracy make. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/107 "2009-09-23T04:27:50Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > The government doesn’t provide benefits, the taxpayer does, usually against their will. No, the taxpayer pays taxes, which the government then distributes to various uses, one of which is providing benefits to those who qualify. You use some of those services, torie uses others, etc. That’s how government works. Surely you don’t need me to explain this to you. ---
**Author:** ![jabiru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@jabiru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabiru)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/108 "2009-09-23T04:28:31Z")
> [@torie](#): > > Look, I looked at the recidivism (i think I’m using that word right. Am I?) rates for people on any kind of assistance. They seem to be kind of high. I wanted to avoid that. I want to get off and have a reasonable shot of staying off. So I thought for a long time about why those rates were so high. It seems that it’s because people want off now, so they go get some job, and then when the job runs out or falls through, as unskilled jobs tend to do, they only made enough to stay off assistance (ugh. I can’t seem to edit that to be less awkward, but you get my drift.). They weren’t able to really change their circumstances permanently. I want to avoid being that statistic, because I feel that we’ll be less expensive that way. **torie** , I seldom respond to these threads, not being a USAnian and all. I do, however, read them all so I’m kind of up with what’s been said to/about you. Good luck with your studies and your efforts to improve your life and the opportunities for your children. I seriously doubt that, when you’ve paid taxes for \>35+ years, you’ll take the attitude of “I’ve had my share of help, none for the rest of you.” ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/109 "2009-09-23T04:39:35Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > How does this relate to torie’s situation? Since they’re both working, wouldn’t it be safe to assume they are both taxpayers? What free ride are they getting? If they qualify for Medicaid, it’s almost certain that their federal income tax liability is zero. They probably get money back, through EIC or other provisions. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/110 "2009-09-23T04:40:11Z")
I agree that **curlcoat** is pretty disturbed, but let me point out a couple other villains in this story: (1) **Torie’s** husband’s employer, for not providing health insurance coverage; (2) A lacking health care “system” which could have helped **Torie** prevent her accidental pregnancy by providing accessible contraception options (like affordable IUDs or other contraceptive devices/services or vasectomies/tubal ligation). If more people had affordable access to contraception (and/or abortion), think of the millions of dollars we could save on Medicaid payment for “oops” children. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/111 "2009-09-23T04:43:32Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Oh **Rubystreak** , thank you so much for giving me the right to disagree. You’re always such a peach on these topics. Thank you, sincerely. The pleasure is all mine, babe. > [@](#): > > And pissed about that? You must be out of your mind if you think any of this stuff matters enough to me to make me pissed. These are words on a page and not worth getting actually mad about, at least for me. You? No idea. I know your claws come out _any_ time I’ve seen you take on this topic. I find it pretty funny that you want to give me lessons on how to make something not seem snide. I really don’t know if you get how funny that truly is. Yeah, my claws come out when I see someone give someone shit for deciding to have kids and raise them with love. I’m crazy like that. And you’re the one who brought up shit from that other thread, not me. I didn’t get all shitty with you this thread: you initiated that. Makes it seem like you’re holding onto something. But whatever, maybe that’s just how you roll. > [@](#): > > I see you (again) bring up **curlcoat** ’s husband’s six figure salary. That seems to be something you really can’t let go of. Was it you that suggested that they move to where that salary would actually mean something, or was that someone else? I know someone did. If that can be suggested (which is funny, because why would you assume his salary would be the same if he goes somewhere else?) but it isn’t okay to suggest that maybe **torie** ’s husband go find a job with insurance? Double standards for unpopular posters and sympathy for anyone with a child. Why am I not surprised around here? Rich people who claim that UHC is literally going to bankrupt them, make them lose their house, and destroy their retirement funds are hysterical, irrational nutcases. Or they’re delusional. curlcoat loves to tell other people what they should do in their lives to be more fiscally responsible, so telling her to move out of Orange County is merely giving her the same kind of advice she gives others. If she can dish it out, she ought to be able to take it. You can suggest all you want that torie’s husband get a job with benefits. I’m sure he’d love to; he’s not holding out just to get that free Medicaid. The difference here, which you fail to realize no matter how many times it’s pointed out, is that curlcoat is sitting in judgment of other people’s choices, so she opens herself up to similar judgment. torie is not doing that. Her biggest mistake is disclosing personal details to be picked apart and criticized by people like you and curlcoat. It’s cute that you have to take all your nasty little shots first, then summarily flounce out with this: > [@](#): > > And now, if it’s okay with Rubystreak, I’m done with this topic. Thanks for the answers **torie** , you certainly didn’t have to provide them. We just see things differently, that’s all. It’s fantastic with me if you’re done with this topic. Thanks SO much for asking, though. It’s good to know my opinion means so much to you. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/112 "2009-09-23T04:48:23Z")
Gosh, you sure showed me. Being a mommy-to-be sure agrees with you. What a lucky kid it will be! ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/113 "2009-09-23T04:49:09Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > No, the taxpayer pays taxes, which the government then distributes to various uses, one of which is providing benefits to those who qualify. You use some of those services, torie uses others, etc. That’s how government works. Surely you don’t need me to explain this to you. Surely, you don’t mean to be an idiot, but there you go. You’re going to say that I use federal highways, and national defense. You’re right, I do, same as torie. But she wants more, like taxpayer provided healthcare. I disagree with that, so I should be shot. No. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/114 "2009-09-23T04:57:41Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > (2) A lacking health care “system” which could have helped **Torie** prevent her accidental pregnancy by providing accessible contraception options (like affordable IUDs or other contraceptive devices/services or vasectomies/tubal ligation). If more people had affordable access to contraception (and/or abortion), think of the millions of dollars we could save on Medicaid payment for “oops” children. I agree with your larger point but it doesn’t really apply in my situation. I was on the mini-pill because i struggled quite a bit with milk supply with Leo (my oldest). The doctor I was seeing then assured me that the protection would be enough. Whoops, no. I ovulated anyway, evidently and we caught that first egg. Nine months later we had little Bram. Lesson learned. Now it’s a normal pill and condoms for me until we are doing a little better. 🙂 I’ve been pregnant four times and had two children, so apparently I get pregnant like other people put on their socks. Ack, reading that makes it sound like I am miserable with having Bram. Of course I’m not. I’m thrilled with him now, of course. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/115 "2009-09-23T05:03:56Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Gosh, you sure showed me. Being a mommy-to-be sure agrees with you. What a lucky kid it will be! I hope you feel good about taking that particularly cheap shot. Zing! Score one for you! Yeah, my poor kid. I guess I could say the same about the fact that you don’t plan to have any. Lucky the rest of us! > [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Surely, you don’t mean to be an idiot, but there you go. You’re going to say that I use federal highways, and national defense. You’re right, I do, same as torie. But she wants more, like taxpayer provided healthcare. I disagree with that, so I should be shot. No. Surely, you don’t mean to be obtuse, but no one suggested you be shot. I mean, no one said it out loud or anything. I’m sure you use government services other than roads and the military. Everyone does. Our government offers benefits for those who need them. That’s a part of the government I agree with philosophically. You don’t. I’m OK with us not agreeing on that, especially considering that it’s unlikely to change to be how you want it, thank god. You asked me if I had a problem with what torie’s doing. I don’t. Is that all? ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/116 "2009-09-23T05:28:21Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I hope you feel good about taking that particularly cheap shot. Zing! Score one for you! Yeah, my poor kid. I guess I could say the same about the fact that you don’t plan to have any. Lucky the rest of us! > > Surely, you don’t mean to be obtuse, **but no one suggested you be shot. I mean, no one said it out loud or anything**. I’m sure you use government services other than roads and the military. Everyone does. Our government offers benefits for those who need them. That’s a part of the government I agree with philosophically. You don’t. I’m OK with us not agreeing on that, especially considering that it’s unlikely to change to be how you want it, thank god. You asked me if I had a problem with what torie’s doing. I don’t. Is that all? You are the height of hilarity. In the same comment you look down your nose at me about a cheap shot and then you turn around and give one to **Carol Stream**. The fact that you can even pretend that you’re not a hypocrite is comedy gold. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/117 "2009-09-23T05:36:51Z")
> [@torie](#): > > I agree with your larger point but it doesn’t really apply in my situation. I was on the mini-pill because i struggled quite a bit with milk supply with Leo (my oldest). The doctor I was seeing then assured me that the protection would be enough. Whoops, no. I ovulated anyway, evidently and we caught that first egg. Nine months later we had little Bram. Lesson learned. Now it’s a normal pill and condoms for me until we are doing a little better. 🙂 I’ve been pregnant four times and had two children, so apparently I get pregnant like other people put on their socks. > > Ack, reading that makes it sound like I am miserable with having Bram. Of course I’m not. I’m thrilled with him now, of course. 🙂 I can totally relate. I had two accidental pregnancies while I was on the pill. Two in the same year!! Talk about lightening striking twice. With a sad heart, I aborted both times, but learned a valuable lesson about the fallibility of hormonal contraception, and now I use two methods. Of course, I know that even two methods can fail too, so I am glad that I live in a country where I have choice. But in a general overall sense, I wish contraception options were more affordable and accessible. Perhaps if you had an IUD you might not have gotten pregnant. But those are expensive to get and have inserted. Heck, even birth control pills are prohibitively expensive sometimes… a generic pill retails for about $30-$35. That’s a lot of money to a poor person. Other little things, like how it’s hard to get your 6 or 12-month prescription filled all at once, so you have to remember to get it filled and get to the store to pick it up each month. Some women may not have easy access to a pharmacy. Yes, places like Planned Parenthood help, but still, sometimes a woman has no way to get to a PP, because she has no car or money for a bus or the nearest one is hundreds of miles away… It shouldn’t be so difficult to access contraception! ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/118 "2009-09-23T05:49:29Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > You are the height of hilarity. In the same comment you look down your nose at me about a cheap shot and then you turn around and give one to **Carol Stream**. The fact that you can even pretend that you’re not a hypocrite is comedy gold. A joke about shooting her, which is a jab at her own hyperbole (something we know you love so from your comments to RNATB), is a “cheap shot,” the same as you taking a shot at my unborn child? Yeah, comedy gold indeed. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/119 "2009-09-23T06:33:12Z")
It is a problem that trolls here are often allowed to stick around for too long, sometimes permanently. How long did it take Aldeberan to be booted? And even then, it was using the “don’t post information that isn’t true or that you should know isn’t true” rule that’s hardly been used since. How long did it take whatever-his-name-was to be booted for making thread after thread designed only to cause controversy? And he was only removed when he admitted in an OP that he thought he could cause a lot of conflict if he started a thread about Mr. Rogers and masturbation, so by gum that’s what the thread would be about. The folks who’ve pointed out that sincerity isn’t the defining characteristic (although lying to cause conflict is a valid metric) intent is. We all know that there are certain posters here who are posting primarily, or solely to pick fights and piss people off. Picture what the situation would be if Der was to specifically seek out as many Evangelical message boards as possible; sincerity doesn’t have to have anything to do with it. You can be a thoughtful conservative who posts here because you want to express your opinion and defend it. That’s worlds away from being a conservative who posts here because you know you can annoy a bunch of liberals. We’ve had a Freeper recently sign on here with the avowed intention of finding a ‘hyper liberal’ board and doing his best to annoy the liberals. We’ve got several people who do their best to post solely to find creative ways of insulting people and causing fights, spewing content-free posts whose only semantic content is “lol U R dum!”, who, well, fish through topics only looking to find someone they can insult. We’ve got folks who make no secret that they hate the board, the vast majority of posters on it, and consider reading (let alone discussing with) most posters’ comments to be odious to one degree or another. All these sorts of folks are allowed to stick around when it’s clear that their only purpose here is to be assholes in order to pick fights. Even the blatant trolling of the late, pompous, ignorant idiot SmashTheState wasn’t what got him bounced, but that his blowhard-nature led him to threaten legal action over comments at an anonymous internet discussion board. The simple fact is that the Dope has never been very good about weeding out trolls and if anything it’s gotten a bit worse. It’s not all that hard to deal with though. Even honest idiots don’t have to be auto-scrolled, but the average gibbering nonnies who shamble in here looking to pick fights and annoy people can rather safely be ignored. And remember that the trolls want nothing more than to be fed. The next time one of the usual suspects posts something that contributes nothing and is obviously just an attempt to pick a fight with yet another Doper? Hell, if you can avoid mentioning them by name so they can’t stroke off to thoughts of how much aggravation they’ve causing? Well… like any other vicious little idiot, they get bored and wander away if they can’t get a rise out of you. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025/120 "2009-09-23T11:43:27Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Surely, you don’t mean to be an idiot, but there you go. You’re going to say that I use federal highways, and national defense. You’re right, I do, same as torie. But she wants more, like taxpayer provided healthcare. And you would be entitled to the exact same benefit should you find yourself in a similar position. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-curlcoat-allowed-to-troll-on-here/511025.md?page=7)