# Why is denying the Jewish Holocaust such a bad thing **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 15, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727 "2005-12-15T15:15:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/41 "2005-12-16T14:08:26Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I struck me when I saw a photograph of some Holocaust statuary that some people in American want to kill Jews. I didn’t really believe that until I became one. Now it makes sense, thanks. Jim ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/42 "2005-12-16T15:04:26Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > Basically, what seperates the Jewish holocaust from all the other holocausts? Of course there have been quite a few genocides in the last two centuries, but nothing compares to the degradation and dehumanization experienced by the Jews in Europe during Hitlers regime. The Jews were treated like animals. Their deaths were preceded by deliberate and calculated starvation and cruelty. They were forced to participate in the murders of there own. Cruel experiments were performed on them by sophisticated educated people. Theirs was a slow cruel death in many cases. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/43 "2005-12-16T15:44:03Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > Of course there have been quite a few genocides in the last two centuries, but nothing compares to the degradation and dehumanization experienced by the Jews in Europe during Hitlers regime. > . Did you hear about what Tojo’s “special unit” did during WWII? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/44 "2005-12-16T16:02:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Did you hear about what Tojo’s “special unit” did during WWII? Are you talking about the unit that did experiments on Chinese and Korean bodies? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/45 "2005-12-16T16:09:00Z")
I am going to assume you mean [Unit 731](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731). One of the primary reasons the Koreans and Chinese still have a strong dislike of the Japanese. Horrible war crimes and one of the reasons Tojo was exectued but on a much smaller scale then the Holocaust and not done as a systematic Genocide. The lasting crime here is Japan still tries to ignore this part of its past and Germany at least owns up to what they did, in hopes of never repeating it. Jim ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/46 "2005-12-16T16:12:01Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I am going to assume you mean [Unit 731](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731). > Horrible war crimes and one of the reasons Tojo was exectued but on a much smaller scale then the Holocaust and not done as a systematic Genocide. > > Jim Yep. However, the atrocities there were _so_ bad, I couldn’t just leave the statement “but nothing compares to the degradation and dehumanization experienced by the Jews in Europe during Hitlers regime.” out there. Something sure can “compare” to them- unfortuately. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/47 "2005-12-16T16:14:06Z")
Damn, triple post, sorry. Don’t take the Wiki article as 100% factual. I see some parts that don’t ring true with other readings I have done on this subject. Check some of the links at the bottom if you are interested. The Gist of the article is true however. The atrocities were extreme, the experiments as gruesome as the Nazi’s. Probably \*\*DrDeth’s \*\* intent in his post. Jim ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/48 "2005-12-16T17:54:39Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > The atrocities were extreme, the experiments as gruesome as the Nazi’s. Probably \*\*DrDeth’s \*\* intent in his post. > > Jim Correct. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/49 "2005-12-16T18:23:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Correct. You realize there is probably only a few thousand of us in the USA that have ever read about the unit 731 atrocities? Maybe that is a real problem. I always think the more these horrors are exposed the better the world is. I rate Schindler’s List as one of the best movies ever as it probably did a better job of showing the horror to a general audience than any other film. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/50 "2005-12-16T19:26:44Z")
From the Wikipedia link (this was also mentioned in a mainstream book of U.S. history I read this week): _“After these laboratories were destroyed by the Japanese to hide their activities, many of the scientists involved went on to prominent careers in politics, academia and business. The United States granted amnesty, allowing these scientists to go unprosecuted in exchange for their experimentation data.”_ Revolting beyond words. You don’t suppose that some of Saddam’s henchmen will end up being excused for their crimes in exchange for “valuable information”? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/51 "2005-12-16T19:51:05Z")
A couple of other reasons (that I don’t think have been specifically mentioned) why the Jewish Holocaust was different from just about every other mass murder: 1. Every Jewish person was targeted, including babies and children. 2. Every Jewish person the Nazis could get their hands on was targeted, meaning that whenever they conquered new territory they eventually transported the Jews there to the killing factories. Ed ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/52 "2005-12-16T21:42:05Z")
I think there is also a feeling amongst many European countries other than Germany that they had a some complicity in the atrocity - both by simpy not giving the Nazi threats the weight they deserved, to a history of poor treatment of Jews across the continent (Dreyfuss Affair, the expulsion of Jews from England in 1290, etc.). 'Never again!" sentiments are not just reserved for those who committed the Holocaust but those who helped create the enviroment amongst the Western nations as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/53 "2005-12-16T21:47:48Z")
Maybe someone who knows more about the relevant history can correct me on this, but perhaps one of the reasons that the Holocaust stays in our (western) minds as such a uniquely horrific thing is that there were a _lot_ of movies showing how evil the Nazis were. Think about how many movies were made showing what evil things the Nazis did vs. movies that show what evil things the Japanese did. Only as an adult did I come across the information that the Japanese did horrible things as well during WWII. Why were more movies made about the evil Nazis than the evil Japanese? Maybe because of the influence that Jews in Hollywood had, or because Americans were more interested in what happened in Europe during WWII, or because of some other reasons. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/54 "2005-12-16T21:48:20Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > I think there is also a feeling amongst many European countries other than Germany that they had a some complicity in the atrocity - both by simpy not giving the Nazi threats the weight they deserved, to a history of poor treatment of Jews across the continent (Dreyfuss Affair, the expulsion of Jews from England in 1290, etc.). 'Never again!" sentiments are not just reserved for those who committed the Holocaust but those who helped create the enviroment amongst the Western nations as a whole. Not to mention how willingly the French kicked in and helped gather the Jews up. Of course they just blame that on the Vichy Government. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/55 "2005-12-16T21:49:37Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Maybe someone who knows more about the relevant history can correct me on this, but perhaps one of the reasons that the Holocaust stays in our (western) minds as such a uniquely horrific thing is that there were a _lot_ of movies showing how evil the Nazis were. > > Think about how many movies were made showing what evil things the Nazis did vs. movies that show what evil things the Japanese did. Only as an adult did I come across the information that the Japanese did horrible things as well during WWII. > > Why were more movies made about the evil Nazis than the evil Japanese? > Maybe because of the influence that Jews in Hollywood had, or because Americans were more interested in what happened in Europe during WWII, or because of some other reasons. Could also be guilt over the Japanese internment camps in this Country. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/56 "2005-12-16T22:00:55Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Of course they just blame that on the Vichy Government. They got even with them afterwards, did they not? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/57 "2005-12-16T23:36:50Z")
**Polerius** , there is also the difference of scale. The Japanese did some horrific things but not anywhere near on the same scale or with the same industrial efficiency. Unit 731 was immoral and disgusting, but it was an attempt to design weapons, not an attempt at genocide. It killed thousands, not millions. They did not nearly erase several peoples. And there is the other point, already alluded to in this thread. The majority of America has European roots. They saw the perpetrators and the victims of the Holocaust as people who looked and otherwise acted like them. They could identify with both the victims and perpetrators more than they could with Asian faces. These were people like them. Asians were just a bit too much “other” to most Americans to identify with. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/58 "2005-12-17T02:33:22Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I think that you’d hear protest, although probably not as much is right. Gypsies … there are not enough left, and certainly not enough well enough placed, to raise voices as loudly. Most Americans don’t know any Romani and think of gypsies as characters from folktales, not as a real people. And in Europe it is still acceptable to hold horrible stereotypes about the Romani. The Kulaks … well they were not an ethnic group, they were a class of people who had been former larger land-owners. And they died with millions of others in a famine aided and abbetted by Stalin’s policies. I think if you tried to claim that Stalin was not responsible for the deaths of millions, you’d hear an uproar, but you could possible get away with debating whether or not it was an attempt at genocide. > > You do miss the point about the insecurity of many Jews. History is full of periods of apparent acceptance of Jews followed by pograms. In the 19th and early 20th centuries German Jews were fairly assimilated. They were part of society like never before. They had rights legislated into place. They fought and died in German wars. They intermarried. German Jews were much more likely to listen to Wagner than to klezmer. They created Reform so they could fit in better. But antisemitism was still smoldering, and given harder economic times, “the Jews” were blamed. > > Now we’ve had a few decades of acceptance in the main. Mind you, hulking idiots have tried to pummel me for being Jewish only 25 years ago, and I have been asked by a sweet young thang if I had horns. And while we can go most places now, our acceptance is really only provisional. You travel in particular circles. The better educated American knows many Jews. We _are_ over-represented in intellectual circles, and at the higher levels of business and many other structures. People who travel in those realms see enough different sorts of Jews to have dismissed many stereotypes and to recognize that we could never agree with each other enough to participate in any conspiricy. But most of the country doesn’t travel in those circles, **Wes**. Most of America has never met a real Jew. Most of America can easily be convinced that this is a Christian nation and that Jews really do control the media and conspire in business. > > You can believe that history has no chance of repeating itself, that 1500 plus years of Jew-hating has just stopped on a dime. I am not so sure of that though. And the fact that only 60 years after HaShoah people are asking “Why denying the Jewish Holocaust is such a bad thing” makes me fairly confident that HaShoah’s horror will fade fairly quickly. And as it does, and as economic times get worse, overt Jew-hating will become fashoinable again. I hope I am wrong, but don’t blame me for looking around corners cautiously. As they say, just because I am paranoid, doesn’t mean the world is not out to get me. I guess it is possible for western civilization to roll back and become anti-semetic again but that would entail giving up many of our civil rights. I don’t think as a society we’d selectively return to anti-semitism, seeing how deeply western society (especially american society, where about 1/3-1/4th of the world’s jews live) is troubled by the consequences of racial discrimination. But these issues only started 50-70 years ago, it is hard to tell what the world of 100 years from now will bring. You do make a good point about how this period may just be a period of tranquility between the next oppressive round. But by and large I think the world is on the path to more freedom and tolerance, not less. Animal rights, racial rights, ethnic rights, sexual rights, womens rights, protections and tolerance for the mentally ill, the poor, etc. the list goes on. I don’t think many in western society would give that up anytime soon. But as I said, in the next 200 years there may be major troubles and people tend to give up their rights and return to crueltly instead of tolerance when faced with troubles. I’ve met Jewish people. yay me. I’m one of the good Goyim. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/59 "2005-12-17T03:29:20Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > Millions being killed by _other_ millions in a brutally genocidal civil war, as in Rwanda, is also arguably “normal” civil war gone horribly, horrifically wrong. > . It wasn’t a civil war (though there was a civil war going on at the time) but a planned and directed massacre with more artisanal means than those used by Nazi Germany. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727/60 "2005-12-17T03:32:53Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > If the denial of another major genocide was widespread, it would be comdemned as well, I would hope. . Hope. But get a look at this thread that followed a Straight Dope article about the Armenian genocide some months ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-denying-the-jewish-holocaust-such-a-bad-thing/335727.md?page=4)