# Why is downtown parking so terrible?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [May 18, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882 "2009-05-18T18:33:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/1 "2009-05-18T18:33:15Z")
I live in the LA area, and as far as big cities go, I’ve been downtown in LA and Chicago, plus numerous downtowns in smaller cities in LA
Why is the parking such a bitch in every downtown? What I mean by that is the storefronts are right up against the street, and parking is usually some tiny-assed space in the back, or a shady alley, or in a parking structure. 9/10 you are paying for parking too.
Contrast that with suburbia. The stores are located in the back of a parking lot. You drive in, park, then walk to the store. Ample room and free parking, and no parking meters anywhere to be seen. Why cant downtown city planners get a clue?
I suspect a couple of reasons, but they dont explain everything. First of course is money. People get revenue from parking lots, so they charge you. But that doesnt explain why every mall or plaza or store everywhere else doesnt charge for parking. You’re telling me WalMart is letting us park for free out of the goodness of their hearts? If they can charge, I bet they would. So why’s the practice limited to downtown?
Two, downtowns are built before the surrounding areas, so they have less room to expand once the city proper gets a bigger population. If you decide to put a new highrise or shopping center in the middle, you cant raze the surrounding blocks to build a parking lot because there simply is no room. So you build up or down in a parking structure, and that’ll cost more money than a flat field. Due to space contraints, you have to charge. But surely we’ve had free parking lots before some of the newer cities were built. Even for a fairly new city, shouldnt the planners look at how they can space out their office buildings and stuff in order to accomodate parking lots? Unless all cities were built before cars, this doesnt make any sense.
And three, people seem to like to stick their big-assed buildings downtown for some reason. I dont see any 30+ story buildings rising out of the middle of nowhere. Compared to the smallish buildings in the suburbs, a 50+ story building would need a huge parking lot, probably taking up way too much room. That’s why they build the expensive toll parking structure. Yet if that were true, why are even the small stores charging people for parking? Why cant they have normal front-lot parking like anywhere outside of downtown?
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/2 "2009-05-18T18:42:25Z")
Downtowns were generally built before cars. People generally walked or used public transport. No need for setting aside space for parking, and city property is so expensive that it makes little economic sense to put a free parking lot in front of a building (especially since you have the problem of people parking there but shopping elsewhere).
People charge for parking in downtowns because it’s expensive to maintain a lot – and you usually can get more money if you sell it for a building.
In the suburbs, there was plenty of land, so there was room to buy enough land for parking (it also was cheaper).
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### Author:  [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/3 "2009-05-18T18:44:00Z")
Because of the high value of downtown real estate. If you own a city block, you can make a heck of a lot more money building a skyscraper on it than you can by building a parking lot.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/4 "2009-05-18T18:45:04Z")
The higher the population density, the more expensive land is, which means its less likely a store owner will waste his space on parking spaces.
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### Author:  [@J-P\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J-P_L)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/5 "2009-05-18T18:50:58Z")
We have the same issue here in Ottawa, Canada and I’m sure in other major Canadian cities as Montreal , Toronto and Vancouver.
My WAG, they charge for downtown parking because they can, if you go shopping in the area, it is because you have a good reason to do so and are willing to pay, otherwise, you’ll go to a mall.
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/6 "2009-05-18T19:01:25Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> Even for a fairly new city, shouldnt the planners look at how they can space out their office buildings and stuff in order to accomodate parking lots? Unless all cities were built before cars, this doesnt make any sense.
Which cities were built after cars?
At least, which cities were built after cars became ubiquitous and people started driving everywhere?
[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
Downtowns were generally built before cars. People generally walked or used public transport.
[/QUOTE]
I think this is it. Plus, kind of the “point” of a downtown area is that it’s dense rather than sprawling, so that you can walk from place to place.
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### Author:  [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/7 "2009-05-18T19:07:06Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#):
>
> Which cities were built after cars?
>
> At least, which cities were built after cars became ubiquitous and people started driving everywhere?
Well, Houston, for one. Where the land is still cheap, and parking downtown easy and inexpensive (at least compared to NY/Chicago/LA).
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### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/8 "2009-05-18T19:23:05Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> Why is the parking such a bitch in every downtown? What I mean by that is the storefronts are right up against the street, and parking is usually some tiny-assed space in the back, or a shady alley, or in a parking structure. 9/10 you are paying for parking too. Contrast that with suburbia. The stores are located in the back of a parking lot. You drive in, park, then walk to the store. Ample room and free parking, and no parking meters anywhere to be seen. Why cant downtown city planners get a clue?
Store fronts are up against the streets because downtown areas are designed for pedestrians, not cars. Having the stores against the streets shortens the distance pedestrians have to walk between stores, creates a more condensed and intimate environment and lessens the perception of being a rat in a giant maze. When you go out into the suburban sprawl, it is expected that you have driven to your location and will probably not be walking to your next location. The buildings and parking lots, therefore, tend to be to automobile scale, not pedestrian scale. Did you ever have to park really far away from the entrance in a megamall / box store parking lot? I always feel like an ant walking around a set of childs blocks.
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> I suspect a couple of reasons, but they dont explain everything. First of course is money. People get revenue from parking lots, so they charge you. But that doesnt explain why every mall or plaza or store everywhere else doesnt charge for parking. You’re telling me WalMart is letting us park for free out of the goodness of their hearts? If they can charge, I bet they would. So why’s the practice limited to downtown?
Land is more expensive in the densely packed urban centers because they are the urban centers. When you go out to the suburban areas, land is much cheaper because it is undeveloped. WalMart can therefore buy huge swaths of land and pave over them.
Two, downtowns are built before the surrounding areas, so they have less room to expand once the city proper gets a bigger population. If you decide to put a new highrise or shopping center in the middle, you cant raze the surrounding blocks to build a parking lot because there simply is no room. So you build up or down in a parking structure, and that’ll cost more money than a flat field. Due to space contraints, you have to charge. But surely we’ve had free parking lots before some of the newer cities were built. Even for a fairly new city, shouldnt the planners look at how they can space out their office buildings and stuff in order to accomodate parking lots? Unless all cities were built before cars, this doesnt make any sense.
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> And three, people seem to like to stick their big-assed buildings downtown for some reason. I dont see any 30+ story buildings rising out of the middle of nowhere. Compared to the smallish buildings in the suburbs, a 50+ story building would need a huge parking lot, probably taking up way too much room. That’s why they build the expensive toll parking structure. Yet if that were true, why are even the small stores charging people for parking? Why cant they have normal front-lot parking like anywhere outside of downtown?
I’ve seen them occassionally. The Citi tower in Queens, NY and the Bethelehem Steel building in Allentown, PA come to mind. However that isn’t the point. The downtown (or Central Business District) is the downtown because of the high concentration of large office buildings.
Since land is usually not an issue in the suburbs, companies will tend to build a sprawling complex of 5 10 story buildings with parking lots instead of a single 50 story tower with an underground garage.
Also realize that most large cities don’t have a lot of 50 story buildings. That’s a tall building even by Manhattan standards.
You seem to think spacing out everything so you can drive everywhere is desireable. The whole purpose of designing out dense urban cores is so that you don’t need to drive everywhere. The idea is that you can take public transportation or at worst Park N’ Ride into the city and not need a car again until you leave for your suburban house.
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### Author:  [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/9 "2009-05-18T19:39:23Z")
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> Store fronts are up against the streets because downtown areas are designed for pedestrians, not cars. Having the stores against the streets shortens the distance pedestrians have to walk between stores,
wait a minute…
so you want/think everybody should walk all around downtown and across properly designed suburbs YET the death march across a decent sized parking lot in front of store would be too much?
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### Author:  [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/10 "2009-05-18T19:42:29Z")
Downtown is too crowded, so no one goes there anymore.
Part of the appeal of many downtown areas is the congestion, the chaos and the confusion. Make it all easy and spread out, and it stops being downtown.
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### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/11 "2009-05-18T20:42:50Z")
> [@billfish678](#):
>
> wait a minute…
>
> so you want/think everybody should walk all around downtown and across properly designed suburbs YET the death march across a decent sized parking lot in front of store would be too much?
I don’t understand your question.
Yes, I would rather walk the same distance in a downtown area of stores and shops than the same distance through a giant parking lot dodging cars.
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### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/12 "2009-05-18T21:01:20Z")
It is easy to understand if you consider what use of the land maximizes the investment of the owner. Hotels downtown may have garages because they consider it a necessity for those coming by car, but they’ll charge as much as they can for the space. Densely packed cities won’t have parking even for stores, less dense cities like San Diego does. Besides the expense of the land, why should Macy’s offer parking when someone can park there and walk to competitors? WalMarts in the suburbs are built on cheaper land, have almost all of their clientele drive in, and are unlikely to have competitors in walking distance.
As for city planners, remember that many of them are trying to discourage cars in the center city. Why require parking which just increases the number of people driving?
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### Author:  [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/13 "2009-05-18T21:39:32Z")
> [@\*\*Thudlow Boink\*\*](#):
>
> Which cities were built after cars?
>
> At least, which cities were built after cars became ubiquitous and people started driving everywhere?
> [@Reno\_Nevada](#):
>
> Well, Houston, for one. Where the land is still cheap, and parking downtown easy and inexpensive (at least compared to NY/Chicago/LA).
I find that [hard to believe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston)
> [@wikipedia](#):
>
> Houston was founded on August 30, 1836 by brothers Augustus Chapman Allen and John Kirby Allen on land near the banks of Buffalo Bayou.[5] The city was incorporated on June 5, 1837…
>
> The burgeoning port and railroad industry, combined with oil discovery in 1901, has induced continual surges in the city’s population…
>
> President Woodrow Wilson opened the deepwater Port of Houston in 1914, seven years after digging began. By 1930, Houston had become Texas’s most populous city and Harris the most populous county.[18]
Built after “cars became ubiquitous”, to my mind, means 1940’s or later - certainly cars existed before then, but most people didn’t have one.
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### Author:  [@pilzner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilzner)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/14 "2009-05-18T22:15:01Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> And three, people seem to like to stick their big-assed buildings downtown for some reason. I dont see any 30+ story buildings rising out of the middle of nowhere. Compared to the smallish buildings in the suburbs, a 50+ story building would need a huge parking lot, probably taking up way too much room. That’s why they build the expensive toll parking structure.
No cite, but my understanding is that in most US cities, building skyscrapers outside of a small area (typically, downtown) is Illegal/prohibitively expensive due to zoning laws. In turn, this ends up making downtown property even _more_ valuable, since anyone who genuinely needs a skyscraper is limited to downtown property.
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### Author:  [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/15 "2009-05-18T22:34:52Z")
> [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](#):
>
> Because of the high value of downtown real estate. If you own a city block, you can make a heck of a lot more money building a skyscraper on it than you can by building a parking lot.
Yes but the real cheddar comes with parking decks in really busy downtown areas.
Lower construction costs, lower maintenance cost, absurd rental rates relative to actual business towers. They’re freaking goldmines.
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### Author:  [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/16 "2009-05-18T22:38:30Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> I dont see any 30+ story buildings rising out of the middle of nowhere.
Do you know how expensive it is to build a 30-story building? Where the land is cheap, there’s no need to incur the cost of building a tower to make your desired return.
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### Author:  [@horsetech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horsetech)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/17 "2009-05-18T22:47:58Z")
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> I don’t understand your question.
>
> Yes, I would rather walk the same distance in a downtown area of stores and shops than the same distance through a giant parking lot dodging cars.
This is known as Jurassic Parking. 😛
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### Author:  [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/18 "2009-05-19T00:00:19Z")
Does this mean we’ll be unlikely to see a downtown with free and ample parking? ☹ I absolutely DETEST going downtown for this very reason. Paying for parkings sucks, and it sucks even more when every run down lot with a chain link fence and a aging guard can charge $10 an hour. I hate the absurb “maximum” limit too. That’s when they charge an hourly fee, but say that as long as you park over a certain time limit, you have to pay the max. And the time limit is usually something absurdly brief like 3 hours. WTF am I paying the full amount when its only 3 hours? I might as well keep it there all day! Bunch of scammers! ☹
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### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/19 "2009-05-19T00:48:46Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> Does this mean we’ll be unlikely to see a downtown with free and ample parking? ☹ I absolutely DETEST going downtown for this very reason. Paying for parkings sucks, and it sucks even more when every run down lot with a chain link fence and a aging guard can charge $10 an hour. I hate the absurb “maximum” limit too. That’s when they charge an hourly fee, but say that as long as you park over a certain time limit, you have to pay the max. And the time limit is usually something absurdly brief like 3 hours. WTF am I paying the full amount when its only 3 hours? I might as well keep it there all day! Bunch of scammers! ☹
Which downtown? I much prefer taking BART into San Francisco rather than driving, and parking there is far easier than what I’m used to in New York. Parking in lots of cities is a lot more than $10 an hour also.
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### Author:  [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-downtown-parking-so-terrible/496882/20 "2009-05-19T01:01:24Z")
> [@Philster](#):
>
> Part of the appeal of many downtown areas is the congestion, the chaos and the confusion. Make it all easy and spread out, and it stops being downtown.
Reminds me of [Schaumburg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaumburg,_Illinois), Illinois. Blechk.
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