Why is everyone so relaxed about obesity?

In My Humble Opinion
121

First of all, your quotes need to go on a diet.

These are two completely different things. Nobody needs to smoke. Taking up smoking shows a serious lack of judgment. But everyone needs to eat, and has hormones and other mechanisms that help them guide how much to eat. In some people, those systems are messed up for medical reasons. In others, because of behavior.

It’s easy to judge people who eat too much for overindulging if you have a satiety mechanism that works well, just like it is easy to judge people for taking drugs or smoking if you’ve never been addicted. That part is the same. But wasn’t there a guy once who said “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”?

One thing is for sure, if a nasty attitude from skinny people helped fat people eat less, there wouldn’t be much of an obesity problem today. I think for smoking the changing attitudes have helped: if you can’t smoke at work, you’ll end up smoking less in total. But it doesn’t work like that for overeating.

An important difference between oversmoking and overeating is that when you stop doing the former, soon all outward evidence of your previous bad habit are gone. If you stop overeating, there’s still all that fat that will stick around for a long time.

One thing that addiction to smoking and drugs have in common with overeating / being fat is that there’s a lot of denial involved. “It’s not that bad” “you have to die of something” “your last decade doesn’t have any quality of life anyway” “I can stop any time I want to” “I have tried everything and nothing works”.

The truth is that it IS possible to kick an addiction and/or reduce your weight (at least to some degree). But rarely do people manage to be successful at the first attempt. As for eating, yes, you WILL be hungry part of the time, but not 24/7 the rest of your life. It’s not easy, and you may not be able to reach arbitrary goals, but it is absolutely possible to improve a lot.

122

I am NOT bullying anyone. For God’s sake. What is wrong with you? Speaking the truth is not bullying. Telling someone who is obese it is okay and that they are not lying to themselves and are not abusing their bodies is like telling a drug addict it is okay, not their fault, you just keep on doing those drugs. What part of enabling don’t you understand? You too ought to live in another country to see that what is going on in America regarding fat and fat acceptance is a sickness. A sickness.

123

Addiction is addiction; it does not matter what you are addicted to: addiction is a sickness.

Baloney about hormones and body type. No one is destined to be obese. You may not be the thinest person in the world: I do know there are different body types. But obesity is not anyone’s body type.

No one is casting any stones. It is not about judging people for being fat. The problem is not facing the truth about being fat. Blaming it on hormones for example. The medical fact is that most people have no physical reason, no illness, that makes them fat: it is all about behavior.

I don’t have a nasty attitude toward obese people. This is the crux of the ‘fat acceptance’ that is going on in the US. If you say being obese is not good and that the person who is obese is causing it, you must have a nasty attitude toward fat people. What a load of hooey. Saying that people who smoke or drink or do drugs cause their illness is no different than saying people who are obese are causing their illness. Enabling them is just as bad as enabling smokers, alcoholics and drug addicts.

124

yes you fucking are.

:rolleyes: nobody is asking you to tell people it’s “ok.” We’re telling you you don’t need to relentlessly point it out. Here’s a newsflash for you: overweight people know they’re overweight. We don’t fucking need you to point it out, and yes, if you insist on repeatedly pointing it out you’re rapidly approaching bullying.

if other countries are full of people like you, I’ll gladly stay here.

no it isn’t. The crux of it is “we know we’re fat. We don’t need you to keep telling us, so please shut up about it. If you can’t shut up about it, then go away.”

125

The comment was not about the average schmuck. It was about us discussing the subject.

Fitness is both a very good proxy for and an important dimension of health. More so than fatness. Yes, the thread was titled about obesity but the actual op was at least as concerned about the fact that she felt her friends had no fitness.

No question that you, able to easily cycle 30 miles, lifting weights regularly, having lost 35 pounds, are fit and much healthier, even if your BMI is still over 30, than someone with a BMI of 22 who does not exercise and who eats crap.

What do you think people did to the obese “in the old days”? Shun them from society? Call them names? Elect them President (actually 5 obese by BMI)? Bow to them as King of England (Henry the 8th, size 52 waist), or Queen (Victoria, size 50)? I really don’t recall too much being said about Hitchcock’s obesity. Was Churchill rejected from society because he was fat?

Yup. Much better to pay attention to what gets posted on message boards by self-appointed experts than what medical research has documented. Because they know “the truth” and feel it is their obligation to offer that “truth” of what others are doing wrong to others who have not asked them for their input … they are doing it for their own good after all. Not offering unsolicited opinions about how simple it is that they should just eat less and move more and not making fun of big fat people … yes that is what you said was the old days that you miss as being not acceptable to do anymore … is enabling them.

Thing is I think on some level you get it. You also comment

And clearly you cannot post that and not realize that there is much more pervasive amounts of those foods and much less activity built into our world right now. And as much as you don’t want to believe the medical science, the fact is that the susceptibility or resistance to those foods and that environment as triggers for the behaviors is highly genetic. There may be other contributory biological factors as well, from the interaction of microbiome and diet upon each other, to inflammation of certain brain centers that can have onset even prenatally as the result of maternal diet (sadly increasing obesity risk in subsequent generations).

None of these biological explanations are excuses; biology is not destiny, it is predisposition and relative risk, given our modern obesiogenic environment. OTOH simplistically declaring that it is “all about behavior”, as if behavior was not influenced by, even based on, biologic factors, is plain ignorance. And the ignorant should not being going around offering their well intended making fun of fat people under the guise of just speaking the truth.

126

It is OK to be “fat”- unless it affects your health. Even then, it’s only *your *health. No one dies from second-hand fat, but second hand smoke kills 50000 people a year. You cant see the difference.

Why should I change my habits when my Doctor says i am perfectly healthy for a man my age? in fact, he said “disgustingly healthy” (he kids). Just to fit into todays weird and sick fashion sense?

And you are so wrong- in the past, zaftig people were thought to be attractive, thin people were shamed.

Don’t believe my Doctor? Dont believe peer reviewed medial studies? Instead believe some random message board poster?:dubious::rolleyes:

127

noted. you do tend to speak “clinically” on such matters, so sometimes it can be hard to figure out what “side” you’re taking (if any.)

128

Yes, you are. And so are completely wrong from a medical point of view. Your personal views on what is attractive have no bearing on what is healthy. They fly vs medical science, especially when you compare being fat to being on drugs.

Many overweight people are perfectly healthy. Why cant you understand that?

129

With all due respect it is your “thinking” that I seek to understand because it seems, at best, shallow. Incomplete. Fuzzy. Minimally informed. Fixed. Incurious.

Lot of things, some that are just silly: “Fat people get specially made clothes” Why, the nerve!

Justification? Nothing needs to be justified, especially the fact of my obesity. To anyone at all, but certainly not to you or other strangers. I have no shame, I am not morally corrupt, unworthy, less deserving or in any other way “wrong” because I am obese, and that’s what I would have to be to feel the need to “justify” my obesity. You’ve made it clear this is what you expect me to feel, but I don’t. Oh well.

Can you specify the words I used that lead you to this strange conclusion? No, you cannot, because they don’t exist. You seem to want fat people to be properly ashamed of being fat, apologetic, fully chagrined at their offensive condition, and anything a fat person says to you that does not reflect this point of view you interpret as militancy in the service of having obesity declared harmless and desirable. Of course, this is a straw man you are throwing into the discussion and therefore does not require rebuttal.

As I said above, you are incurious. You simply want to declare your feelings and beliefs. Well, consider them declared. But you might want to consider the purpose of this website and the column from which it sprang.

And as we know, obesity prevents people from acquiring knowledge and understanding of anything.

Since you obviously know all that needs to be known about the causes and cures of obesity, do you really believe it’s fair to let the thousands of researchers go on wasting so much money and time and talent on something you’ve got all figured out? Go, esmeralda, spread the good news that you’ve got the answer! To do otherwise is nothing less than cruel!

Not harsh, just ignorant. There’s a lot of that going around.

130

Seriously? Is it only bullying if you actually turn violent?

You have a truly fascinating world view.

131

My dear, you are the very embodiment of exactly what you decry.

What are these medical facts? Care to linkity link to some of these medical facts? I’m totally down with medical facts but I’m a little surprised to hear you mention them.

Some people just can’t get past the cognitive dissonance, so they stay stuck. Sad but true.

132

You most certainly are bullying. I don’t believe anyone has said being obese is ok. what IS being said is that verbally abusing obese people, as you’re doing DOES NOT HELP, and actually may be detrimental.

Do you really think people choose to be obese? That people sit around and consciously make that decision?? Hello? It’s an indication that there’s more at work here, as a number of people here have pointed out to you (including a physician, DSeid). But clearly you’re incapable of reading for comprehension.

133

This is right up there with the business about fat people needing specially-made clothes. Whatever that means.

134

I don’t really give much of a rat’s ass about who’s fat, who isn’t, or who cares about how fat I may or may not be.

But I’m appalled that in three pages, no one has raised the issue of opting out of spending weekends with one’s co-workers, even though (IME) that’s the default condition.

135

If you choose the behavior, you choose the consequences.

There are two ways to view your circumstances: you can think what happens to you is your own fault, or you can think it’s not your fault. People who subscribe to the latter are happier, people who subscribe to the former are more successful.

So is being fat a moral failing that can be solved with more willpower? If you think that, you have a better chance of losing and keeping off the weight, but if you fail, you feel even worse because obviously you didn’t try hard enough. Or are some people just born with a genetic makeup that makes them heavy and dieting doesn’t work 90% of the time so there’s no point in trying? If you think that you’re not going to lose the weight, but at least you won’t feel as bad about it.

In any event: the first order of business is to make sure you don’t get even fatter.

136

The problem is, in a word, denial, yes?

Ahem… you are so textbook for the idea that what we find offensive in others is actually something we find offensive in ourselves that I’d almost think you are a plant for the purpose of creating a teachable moment.

“I’m not bullying! I’m not judgmental!” yada yada… I give you… you:

Please tell me how not judgmental “making fun of the big fat people” is again?

And this is where I got the notion that you seem to believe that what is lacking is the correct and consistent application of ridicule, like in the olden days of skinny. There it is, your own words. We mustn’t accept fat people, it just encourages them! Is that about it?

Not casting any stones, are you? Tell me, when you do decide to cast a few, do you have to get a backhoe to lift them?

:smack::smack::smack::smack::smack:

Ah yes, we’re back to this… I think you should make it your sig line. (You can just cop to the fact that it was a supremely asinine thing to say, really just utter nonsense, at any time and I’m pretty sure we’ll all be okay with that. It’s the pretending you didn’t say it part that’s the problem…wait, didn’t someone else talk about the issue being not facing reality…? Sounds so familiar…wait! I know!

Of course you don’t! When you say you used to make fun of the big fat people stuffing themselves (Ah, the good old days…), what you were really doing was gently saying “Pardon me, but were you aware of the fact that carrying extra weight can pose a health risk?” and you just call it “making fun of the big fat people stuffing themselves” because it’s easier.

And “lazy” isn’t a judgment! Of course not! Why, some of your favorite people in the world are lazy! Lazy is downright charming!

esmeralda… *get the fuck real already! * Or if you can’t get real, then I strongly urge you to just slink away quietly because not only are you not making any headway in your “arguments”, you are going faster backwards than most people do going forwards.

Glass houses, kiddo.

137

Absolutely agreed! And the research is pretty clear that the most effective way to make sure that doesn’t happen is to stop dieting.

I know, that cognitive dissonance thing… well, its true. Google “dieting makes you fatter”. I like this person’s collection of the evidence:

More at the link.

138

I completely agree with the point made in that link that “dieting” - defining it as attention to the scale as the be-all and end-all goal - is likely counterproductive, especially in kids, but a) still have critiques about the evidence offered to support it and b) disagree with part of the the advice that she then offers to eat what food is desired. If what is desired is hyperpalatable low satiety crap that is bad advice.

Doubling back to a) the twin study. One - the measured difference for monozygotic twins was small - 0.4 kg m-2 at 25 years, not the difference between normal and obese. Two - monozygotic twins are only so-called identical. Causation cannot be assumed as “dieting” behaviors may be a mere marker of other factors that predispose to weight gain, such as the tendency to look to external cues like a scale rather than having greater sensitivity to internal ones like satiety, or being a bit more insecure (thus trying to lose weight when not at that point even overweight). It may be that those who tend to be food-preoccupied begin dieting early and often, more than that the dieting leads to the food-preoccupation.

139

It’s both, I think; The Minnesota Starvation study participants developed preoccupations with food that lasted long after the study was over.

140

You know, in American, *clothes are especially made *for anorexic people, people who are skinny to the point of being unhealthy. :rolleyes:

While being a bit underweight can be good for your health (and being a bit overweight is usually harmless) being severely underweight is as bad for your health as being severely obese.

Dont get me wrong- there are a lot of people whose being severely obese has hurt their health, and yes, we should offer them a helping hand. Not throw rocks at them.