# Why is executing someone painlessly difficult? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932 "2015-07-01T03:12:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/61 "2015-07-01T18:23:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > For that matter, doesn’t the FBI have a chemistry lab and the technical know-how to manufacture all the drugs they want and then sell to the states? Indeed, I’ve always been curious why a state or some enterprising individual hasn’t made a fortune manufacturing and selling these drugs. Seems like you’d have no competition, a captive market, minimally price conscious buyers, and other favorable conditions. Does anyone know why discredited, sleazy or quack doctors with nothing to lose don’t perform executions? There’s bound to be plenty of them floating around. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/62 "2015-07-01T18:31:54Z")
I don’t think it would be hard to have executioners, professional, state or federally licensed who will come in and preform the execution behind a curtain which is then opened after the executioner has left so that the dead can be declared dead and positively identified as the person who was not dead a few minutes before. Sound proof rooms and bloodless death are easy. Only the executioner knows if any pain was felt or shown. With a decent wage, getting & training executioners would not be a problem. Many would do it for a meal, room and travel expenses. Or professional firing squads that ‘Have Gun, Will Travel’ which would stop the poor shot folks in the firing squad problem. Open or closed to the public on a state by state choice. Bawahahaha ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/63 "2015-07-01T18:42:34Z")
I’d say the market for drugs to be used in judicial executions is really, really small. The production technology is probably too sophisticated to be handled in a garage, anyway. For the big pharmaceutical companies, on the other hand, losing the odd corrections department as a small customer is insignificant. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/64 "2015-07-01T18:56:19Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > I’d say the market for drugs to be used in judicial executions is really, really small. The production technology is probably too sophisticated to be handled in a garage, anyway. For the big pharmaceutical companies, on the other hand, losing the odd corrections department as a small customer is insignificant. Compounding that is that an anti-DP tactic (with some good basis) is that even drugs used for this purpose need to be NSP or otherwise professionally formulated, so the prison basement or whatever isn’t really an acceptable source. And that even if the drugs so supplied were fantastically profitable, the company would take a hit from DP opponents that could have far-reaching consequences. N2, not to gas a dead horse, has absolutely no such limitations. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/65 "2015-07-01T19:03:54Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > If it were possible yo do a statistical analysis of everyone in the history of humanity who has died so far, I strongly suspect that the vast majority of those deaths would have entailed pain and suffering. Painless deaths would likely be the exception. > > Pain is the body’s response to damage, and killing it is by definite causing damage, so from an evolutionary standpoint death is supposed to hurt. > > I always have trouble understanding the objection that our society has to pain and suffering. It’s like we think it is something wrong or unnatural, or that we somehow have some sort of right not to feel it. > > Nobody here gets out alive, and for all but a lucky few the thing that kills us is going to hurt a lot, and probably for a long time before it’s finished. That’s just the way it is. > > To me, it seems that any pain during the execution itself is actually incidental and not really worthy of comment compared to the immense amount of suffering the inmate undoubtedly goes through in anticipation of the execution during the days weeks and years preceding it. That mental anguish seems monumental compared to whatever few minutes of suffering might be endured > > Lest anyone get me wrong, I used to be in favor of the death penalty but now I’m not not. I think if the death is more painful than average, then it qualifies as torture. Say you pump in a ton of muscle relaxant followed by an inadequate amount of drug that is suppose to stop the heart. The executed looks peaceful, yet the prisoner sufferers extended if silent agony. Personally, such an action strikes me as an official act of cowardice. I’d prefer bullets or the guillotine. I don’t think we should poo-poo the concept of medical professionalism either. Lest anyone get me wrong, I used to oppose the death penalty completely, but now I can think of some exceptions for the purposes of saving lives - for example certain revolutions. I’m thinking of Nicolae Ceaușescu of Romania (d. 1989). ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/66 "2015-07-01T19:16:16Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > We are way too concerned with being civilized, forgetting the laws of the bush are never far away. > China and Saudi are not concerned with such niceties. Smart of them. a) This is an absurd statement. The reason we are concerned with being civilized is so to avoid the “laws of the bush”. b) Do you really think China and Saudi Arabia are cultures to be emulated? ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/67 "2015-07-01T19:26:57Z")
I think a huge part of the torture of the current death penalty is psychological. Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone on death row. Most members of the public never do this exercise because they falsely believe 1. They would never kill someone even if forced, and if they had to kill someone, the courts would buy their self defense argument. 2. They would never be falsely accused of a murder and convicted and sentenced to death Both #1 and #2 have happened dozens of times. Anyways, the torture of being told “you are scheduled to be killed 10 days from now”…9 days…8…etc. That’s bad. And then, the endless appeals and stays mean that you might be about to be marched into the death chamber when you receive a temporary reprieve. Then, once they strap you to a gurney like cowards, not giving you any chance to fight back, they take their sweet time putting in an IV and murdering you. Several posters above have the right idea. There’s no point in telling a condemned man when he’s going to die - let his lawyers worry about that. That information should be secret. And, the actual act of the execution itself should be sudden and unexpected. Simply replacing the air in a prisoner’s cell with nitrogen, done slowly and silently with a properly engineered system, while the prisoner is asleep is one approach. Another is shooting the prisoner in the back of the head while they are being walked routinely somewhere - this is how the Soviets supposedly did it. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/68 "2015-07-01T19:33:54Z")
Maybe it’s just me, but I get a little frustrated when threads, especially in GQ, drift along mutually-exclusive topics. Except where it’s collaterally important to an answer, this thread is not about whether the DP is a good idea, or whether anyone should be for or against it. if you’re against it, there’s no place for you to argue about the methods we can use. (They’re all bad, right? And some are worser? Okay. Got that.) That quite a few opponents have used gamer tactics to try and effectively stall DP efforts is collateral but not central to the discussion. Just sayin’. If you think cars should be abolished, you don’t have much to contribute to a “which one’s best” thread, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/69 "2015-07-01T19:37:27Z")
**Habeed** : The problem is psychologies vary. I’d rather know when my time is up. But I’d prefer a gun shot or even a hanging over [an Ohio style lethal injection](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/03/death_penalty_drugs_lethal_injection_executions_are_so_bad_that_it_s_time.html). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/70 "2015-07-01T19:40:29Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > Indeed, I’ve always been curious why a state or some enterprising individual hasn’t made a fortune manufacturing and selling these drugs. Seems like you’d have no competition, a captive market, minimally price conscious buyers, and other favorable conditions. According to the wiki article on the death penalty in the US, there were 39 executions in 2013. That’s 39 doses. Would the cost of complying with FDA regs be enough to make much money? And far from being"minimally price conscious" customers, death penalty costs are closely scrutinised by death penalty opponents. I wouldn’t be surprised if they started Freedom of information requests on the costs of the drugs. The high cost of enforcing the death penalty generally has become one of the planks used by death penalty opponents, with some success. If the costs of the drugs started to skyrocket, that would quickly be publicised. [Quote/[Does anyone know why discredited, sleazy or quack doctors with nothing to lose don’t perform executions? There’s bound to be plenty of them floating around.[/QUOTE] They do have something to lose: their licence to practise. Medical regulatory boards have concluded that participating in executions is contrary to medical ethics. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/71 "2015-07-01T19:41:45Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Lest anyone get me wrong, I used to oppose the death penalty completely, but now I can think of some exceptions for the purposes of saving lives - for example certain revolutions. I’m thinking of Nicolae Ceaușescu of Romania (d. 1989). While I agree with you, it’s worth noting that 66% of Romanians today say they would vote Ceausescu back into power if they got the chance. On second thought, maybe that in itself is a good reason to have executed him. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/72 "2015-07-01T19:43:02Z")
Shooting in the head is probably one of the quickest (and if done properly painless) ways to execute someone. The Soviets used to do it that way, and I think Belarus still does. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/73 "2015-07-01T19:48:15Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Another is shooting the prisoner in the back of the head while they are being walked routinely somewhere - this is how the Soviets supposedly did it. That’s also the way they did it in East Germany from 1968 to 1980. The executioner was this gentleman: [![](https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2745/4381812404_4fe4029589_b.jpg) ](https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2745/4381812404_4fe4029589_b.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/74 "2015-07-01T19:50:33Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > a) This is an absurd statement. The reason we are concerned with being civilized is so to avoid the “laws of the bush”. > > b) Do you really think China and Saudi Arabia are cultures to be emulated? Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. George Orwell I believe. To have a peaceable and civilized society you have to accept that uncivilized things have to be done on your behalf. Otherwise you will not have a peaceable and civilized society for very long. It is not absurd at all. No I do not think we should emulate China and Saudi. My point was on this one issue they are a little more realistic than we are. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/75 "2015-07-01T19:52:48Z")
How is that we need to be protected from people who are already in prison? ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/76 "2015-07-01T19:56:42Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Several posters above have the right idea. There’s no point in telling a condemned man when he’s going to die - let his lawyers worry about that. That information should be secret. And, the actual act of the execution itself should be sudden and unexpected. Simply replacing the air in a prisoner’s cell with nitrogen, done slowly and silently with a properly engineered system, while the prisoner is asleep is one approach. “_Bugger ! I pumped the wrong cell…_” > [@](#): > > Another is shooting the prisoner in the back of the head while they are being walked routinely somewhere - this is how the Soviets supposedly did it. I’ve never _once_ heard that, and I’ve read much on the bolshevik way of death. Probably too dangerous to plug a moving target, with a fair chance of self or helper injury. The gentleman I referenced above, and elsewhere, had possibly the greatest experience of any Soviet executioner, profoundly admired, Order of the Red Star, Order of Lenin, Order of the Red Banner ( _bis_ ) etc. etc., and was markedly ceremonious and meticulously methodical in his design. _**[The room was](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Blokhin)** specially designed with padded walls for soundproofing, a sloping concrete floor with a drain and hose, and a log wall for the prisoners to stand against. Blokhin would stand waiting behind the door in his executioner garb: a leather butcher’s apron, leather hat, and shoulder-length leather gloves. Then, without a hearing, the reading of a sentence or any other formalities, each prisoner was brought in and restrained by guards while Blokhin shot him once in the base of the skull with a German Walther Model 2 .25 ACP pistol._ One can scarcely personally kill 300 men an hour by walking them about and saying each time “_Stop a second, I need to tie my shoelace/light a cig_.” _Blokhin and his team worked without pause for 10 hours each night, with Blokhin executing an average of one prisoner every three minutes_ ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/77 "2015-07-01T20:00:51Z")
If we’re going to have the death penalty - and it appears that, at least for now, we will in the Federal courts and in some states - I also wonder as the OP does. How hard could it be to use carbon monoxide, or nitrogen, or extreme cold, or administer an overdose of police-seized narcotics? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/78 "2015-07-01T20:09:11Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > If we’re going to have the death penalty - and it appears that, at least for now, we will in the Federal courts and in some states - I also wonder as the OP does. How hard could it be to use carbon monoxide, or nitrogen, or extreme cold, or administer an overdose of police-seized narcotics? Police-seized narcotics are illegal. Even for use by executioners. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/79 "2015-07-01T20:17:39Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > It isn’t. The simple problem is that the state institutions that are still killing people > > a. Don’t want to change, despite evidence that suggests that executions aren’t a deterrent > b. Don’t want to give the inmates a painless way out - it has to be at least somewhat painful and horrific I think **Habeeb** called it, right up in Post #2, probably among other reasons. When California debated scrapping the Gas Chamber (remember who _else_ used gas chambers?) in favor of lethal injection – following a high-profile botched gassing or several – the Attorney General Dan Lungren fought tooth-and-nail against the change. I don’t remember details of the debate at the time, but I remember becoming convinced at the time that Lungren was a depraved sadist, for whom it was all about the torture. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/80 "2015-07-01T20:19:55Z")
The gas chamber used to be popular. It is discussed here: [Gas chamber - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_chamber) The typical method used cyanide. It was declared unconstitutional in certain states. My slate link was written by a physician who wondered why lethal injection was so commonly botched. It isn’t for medical reasons. Injections are botched because prison authorities lack the skill and cognition to design and carry out an appropriate protocol according to my understanding of the author. And the medical establishment wants nothing to do with this. [Death penalty drugs: Lethal injection executions are so bad that it’s time to bring back the firing squad.](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/03/death_penalty_drugs_lethal_injection_executions_are_so_bad_that_it_s_time.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932.md?page=5)