# Why is executing someone painlessly difficult? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932 "2015-07-01T03:12:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/81 "2015-07-01T21:10:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How is that we need to be protected from people who are already in prison? Like the two murderers who escaped in New York? No danger to the public at all, right? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/82 "2015-07-01T21:21:16Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Captive bolt gun, a-la “No Country for Old Men”. Safer (for everyone else), less messy, and probably cheaper over the long haul. > > Seriously though; I was reading that several states are considering a switch to nitrogen asphyxiation, since it’s painless and the condemned don’t even know it’s happening. > > Of course, that sort of begs the question of if they can do it like that, why don’t they just rig up the death row cells to be air-tight, and on someone’s execution day, don’t tell them- just increase the nitrogen percentage. They’d never know it happened- no freakouts, no execution-theater, or anything like that. They tried the killing the prisoner in his sleep with cyanide gas, it didn’t work because the room was not air tight. That is why they built the gas chamber. Nitrogen seems the wave of the future, but governments move slowly. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/83 "2015-07-01T22:17:11Z")
**Moderator Action** Given the subject matter, it’s not surprising that this thread has strayed outside of the bounds of GQ more than once. I think there’s enough back and forth debate here to justify a move to GD, so let’s try that forum. Moving thread from General Questions to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/84 "2015-07-02T04:01:36Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Police-seized narcotics are illegal. Even for use by executioners. They are typically destroyed after serving as evidence at trial. Hard drugs are classified under Federal law; Congress could pass a law permitting their use for Federal and state executions. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/85 "2015-07-02T04:28:12Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] How is that we need to be protected from people who are already in prison? [/QUOTE] > [@Grotonian](#): > > Like the two murderers who escaped in New York? No danger to the public at all, right? Prison and jails house what? 3 million people in the US? And you want to make policy because you are scared of 2 guys? Who weren’t on death row anyway? Really now? Those guys don’t frighten me. Nor do plane crashes. I base my risk assessment on statistics, not media sensationalism. Then again, I’m an ultra-liberal by US standards. Rational risk assessment is what we do. At any rate, I think the OP has been answered. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/86 "2015-07-02T13:36:02Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > They tried the killing the prisoner in his sleep with cyanide gas, it didn’t work because the room was not air tight. That is why they built the gas chamber. > Nitrogen seems the wave of the future, but governments move slowly. In a pragmatic way, that’s the beauty of the nitrogen method. Rather than having to simultaneously worry about giving the condemned enough cyanide to kill him, as well as prevent leaks that could both prevent a timely death AND be harmful to people outside the chamber, all you have to worry about is displacing enough oxygen in the room so that he falls unconscious and dies of asphyxiation. Leaks aren’t a problem at all unless your room is so leaky that you’re displacing all the oxygen outside of the designated room as well. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/87 "2015-07-02T14:50:09Z")
Thank you\*\* SeaDragonTattoo\*\* for answering the question actually asked. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/88 "2015-07-02T20:43:54Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Nurses will not participate in executions, nor will any other health care professionals. It is against their code of ethics. > > That is the real reason for botched executions. Untrained prison employees are trying to perform procedures that turn out to be harder than they think. Cite? Allow me to add a wrinkle or two to the conversation. Some from my experience as an EMT, some from my brother, who is a captain in the Kentucky Prison System. A medical doctor has to be on-hand at an execution. They are the ones who make the pronouncement as to when the patient dies. It has to be noted on all of the paperwork. Nurses have to be present (at the very least, a paramedic) in order to place the IV line that the drugs are administered through. Most states will not allow anyone raked lower than EMT-A to start an IV (from lowest ranked to highest in my area: First responder, EMT-B, EMT-A, Paramedic, LPN, RN), and if, say, an EMT-B is instructed to start a line on a patient, while a paramedic is off doing something else to the patient, the medic knows that anything outside of the scope of the EMT-Bs practice falls directly on the medic’s shoulders. So if a paramedic is working on a critical patient, and asks me to start a line, if I screw it up, the medic’s certification would be impacted. You (collectively, no one in particular) may say that it goes against the Oath that doctors and nurses take to administer these drugs, but that’s not necessarily true. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/89 "2015-07-02T21:53:21Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Police-seized narcotics are illegal. Even for use by executioners. Plus the execution would be really slow and messy if it turns out the dealer had heavily cut his product with baby laxative. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/90 "2015-07-02T22:31:38Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Prison and jails house what? 3 million people in the US? And you want to make policy because you are scared of 2 guys? Who weren’t on death row anyway? Really now? > > Those guys don’t frighten me. Nor do plane crashes. I base my risk assessment on statistics, not media sensationalism. Then you shouldn’t be all that concerned about the church shootings or mass shootings. There are 300 million people in this country and the odds of any of them dying from a racially motivated or mass shooting are infinitesimal and such rarities are certainly not justification for sweeping efforts to ban or heavily regulate gun ownership. More people die every two to three days in this country in car crashes than have been killed in mass shootings over the last ten years. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/91 "2015-07-02T23:00:00Z")
Oops, wrong thread, wrong subject. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/92 "2015-07-02T23:38:31Z")
Well, if we’re going to go by body count, capital punishment in the U.S. is statistically insignificant - only a few dozen a year - though the economic costs are considerable. Heck, California fought long and hard to get Charles Ng extradited and spent millions trying him, and if he’d fathered a child the night before being sent to death row, that kid would now be prepping for the S.A.T. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/93 "2015-07-02T23:57:42Z")
Execution by plastic explosive. Wrap a 5 pound mass of C4 around a football helmet, in 5 separately fused & wired sections. Hook it all to 5 differnt power sources, each capable of detonating all 5 blocks. One switch. Instant, utterly painless, & completely certain. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/94 "2015-07-03T01:17:10Z")
I think the OP has been answered. Prison authorities lack medical skills, notwithstanding Superdude’s caveats. I say the (GD) implications are that we should execute using methods consistent with the executioner’s expertise. Or at least offer condemned prisoners a firing squad option. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Oops, wrong thread, wrong subject. My apologies. I hate it when that happens! Folding in your previous point, I support air bags because death from auto accidents are a serious problem. Poking around the internet I see that mass shootings might kill about 30 per year and injure 20 on average. Some years it’s a lot more of course. I don’t dismiss such numbers. But one shouldn’t over-emphasize them either. At any rate they are dwarfed by the ~33,000 gun deaths per year. > **[Ten Surprising Findings From a New Report on Gun Violence](https://slate.com/technology/2013/06/handguns-suicides-mass-shootings-deaths-and-self-defense-findings-from-a-research-report-on-gun-violence.html)** > > Background checks are back. Last week, Vice President Joe Biden said that five U.S. senators—enough to change the outcome—have told him they’re looking... ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/95 "2015-07-03T02:10:03Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Execution by plastic explosive. > > Wrap a 5 pound mass of C4 around a football helmet, in 5 separately fused & wired sections. Hook it all to 5 differnt power sources, each capable of detonating all 5 blocks. > > One switch. > > Instant, utterly painless, & completely certain. We could debate cruel, but it is certainly _unusual_. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/96 "2015-07-03T02:17:43Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > We could debate cruel, but it is certainly _unusual_. Why? Americans _like_ football. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/97 "2015-07-03T02:18:00Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Still not seeing a real reason among these responses, honestly. > > An anaethesiologist isn’t required for an injection, only a nurse is, for one. Drugs are available on the street that could be used without concern about the manufacturer’s consent. There are combinations of drugs as well, (not street drugs) which could be easily used. This may be an obvious nitpick, but you’re also talking about the difference between giving an injection into a muscle, vs starting an IV, which is considerably trickier. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/98 "2015-07-03T03:09:56Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Cite? > > Allow me to add a wrinkle or two to the conversation. Some from my experience as an EMT, some from my brother, who is a captain in the Kentucky Prison System. > > A medical doctor has to be on-hand at an execution. They are the ones who make the pronouncement as to when the patient dies. It has to be noted on all of the paperwork. Nurses have to be present (at the very least, a paramedic) in order to place the IV line that the drugs are administered through. Most states will not allow anyone raked lower than EMT-A to start an IV (from lowest ranked to highest in my area: First responder, EMT-B, EMT-A, Paramedic, LPN, RN), and if, say, an EMT-B is instructed to start a line on a patient, while a paramedic is off doing something else to the patient, the medic knows that anything outside of the scope of the EMT-Bs practice falls directly on the medic’s shoulders. So if a paramedic is working on a critical patient, and asks me to start a line, if I screw it up, the medic’s certification would be impacted. > > You (collectively, no one in particular) may say that it goes against the Oath that doctors and nurses take to administer these drugs, but that’s not necessarily true. [AMA Code of Medical Ethics/Opinion 2.06 - Capital Punishment](http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/medical-ethics/code-medical-ethics/opinion206.page?) > [@](#): > > “A physician, as a member of a profession dedicated to preserving life when there is hope of doing so, should not be a participant in a legally authorized execution.” [Official American Nurse’s Association Position Statements/Nurses’ Role in Capital Punishment](http://www.nursingworld.org/MainMenuCategories/Policy-Advocacy/Positions-and-Resolutions/ANAPositionStatements/Position-Statements-Alphabetically/prtetcptl14447.pdf) > [@](#): > > “The American Nurses Association (ANA) is strongly opposed to nurse participation in capital punishment. Participation in executions, either directly or indirectly, is viewed as contrary to the fundamental goals and ethical traditions of the nursing profession.” [National Association of Emergency Medical Technicians/New Position Statement Opposes Participation in Executions](http://www.naemt.org/WhatsNewALLNEWS/10-02-18/New_Position_Statement_Opposes_EMS_Participation_in_Executions.aspx) > [@](#): > > “In a new position statement, NAEMT states its strong opposition to participation in capital punishment by EMTs, paramedics or other emergency medical practitioners. Participation in executions is viewed as contrary to the fundamental goals and ethical obligations of emergency medical services.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/99 "2015-07-03T03:50:48Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Plus the execution would be really slow and messy if it turns out the dealer had heavily cut his product with baby laxative. Of course you could test the drugs beforehand to see how pure/effective they would be. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Why? Americans _like_ football. George Will said that football combines two of the worst features of American society: violence and committee meetings. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932/100 "2015-07-03T05:20:30Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Execution by plastic explosive. > > Wrap a 5 pound mass of C4 around a football helmet, in 5 separately fused & wired sections. Hook it all to 5 differnt power sources, each capable of detonating all 5 blocks. > > One switch. > > Instant, utterly painless, & completely certain. Imagine the gingerly reluctance to go forward for readjustment when the fucker doesn’t go off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-executing-someone-painlessly-difficult/723932.md?page=6)