# Why is Female devolving into a derogatory? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 10, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363 "2015-04-10T19:58:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/1 "2015-04-10T19:58:38Z")
Or is it… Ok, it can’t be just me. Lately, whenever I here someone use the term “female” it sounds derogatory to me. To be clear, I mean it sounds as if the person (usually a woman) using it to demean/dismisal the woman of her ire. Am I alone in noticing this? Any thoughts on why? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/2 "2015-04-10T20:17:18Z")
Can you give an example? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/3 "2015-04-10T20:19:40Z")
You’re definitely not the only one to notice it. I’ve seen other discussions of it on the internet, but they are hard to look for since searching for “females” and “derogatory term” comes up with so many things. I’d disagree that it’s usually a woman using it to demean other women. I don’t know who uses it more, but I’ve noticed it with men’s rights activists types and other men angry at women using it. I think it jumps out because you rarely hear people talking about “males”, it’s men or guys or people instead. Also, it’s an adjective, and referring to people as an adjective instead of a noun sounds a little dehumanizing. Like saying gay people or black people sounds better than talking about the gays or the blacks. If someone says females instead of women, I don’t take it as a sure sign that something is wrong with them, maybe they are just imprecise with their language usage, or have heard other people using it and think it’s proper. But it is a red flag to me that they might be a little off in their thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/4 "2015-04-10T20:20:17Z")
I’ve noticed this too: it seems to be more and more replaced by the attribute adjective “woman” (as in, “the first woman athlete to do so-and-so” etc.) Which sounds derogatory to _my_ mind because attributive adjectives are often derogatory (e.g. “Democrat Party”.) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/5 "2015-04-10T20:26:48Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Can you give an example? I’ve seen it here. “Why do females ignore me/ throw drinks in my face/ obtain restraining orders?” ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/6 "2015-04-10T20:27:31Z")
Wait, I found two articles on it: [6 Reasons You Should Stop Referring To Women As “Females” Right Now](http://www.buzzfeed.com/tracyclayton/stop-calling-women-females#.daPL8x152) [The Problem With Calling Women ‘Females’](http://jezebel.com/the-problem-with-calling-women-females-1683808274) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/7 "2015-04-10T20:30:56Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > But it is a red flag to me that they might be a little off in their thinking. Same here. It is an early warning the person has a particular view towards women that is uncomfortably different from mine. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/8 "2015-04-10T20:31:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I think it jumps out because you rarely hear people talking about “males”, it’s men or guys or people instead. Also, it’s an adjective, and referring to people as an adjective instead of a noun sounds a little dehumanizing. Like saying gay people or black people sounds better than talking about the gays or the blacks. > > If someone says females instead of women, I don’t take it as a sure sign that something is wrong with them, maybe they are just imprecise with their language usage, or have heard other people using it and think it’s proper. But it is a red flag to me that they might be a little off in their thinking. I have heard the objections and I think it is a stupid complaint in general. I use the term ‘males’ all the time even on this board and it is just as inoffensive as ‘female’ is. The reason that it isn’t offensive and is often necessary is that there aren’t any other formal terms that are inclusive of either sex that are not also age or class specific. ‘Gentlemen’ or even ‘men’ don’t always fit just like ‘ladies’ and ‘women’ don’t if you are writing about something that applies to all members of the sex from newborns to the elderly. That distinction is important in some contexts, especially biological and medical discussions among many others. BTW, ‘Female’ can function as either a noun or an adjective. For this type of usage, it is a noun just like the competing terms. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/9 "2015-04-10T20:32:16Z")
This has been discussed for decades in Linguistics. If you’re interested in that aspect, you might search “female lawyer” “lady lawyer” “woman lawyer”. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/10 "2015-04-10T20:32:27Z")
There have been vaguely derogatory uses for decades. “Make up and lipstick and all those female fripperies.” It usually makes the speaker sound like a hick, but the anti-feminist content is discernible. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/11 "2015-04-10T20:37:27Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I’ve seen it here. “Why do females ignore me/ throw drinks in my face/ obtain restraining orders?” “Female”… the new “F” word. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/12 "2015-04-10T20:42:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I think it jumps out because you rarely hear people talking about “males”, it’s men or guys or people instead. Also, it’s an adjective, and referring to people as an adjective instead of a noun sounds a little dehumanizing. Like saying gay people or black people sounds better than talking about the gays or the blacks. This. “There are 1 million people in this city” vs. “There are 1 million humans in this city.” ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/13 "2015-04-10T20:45:34Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This. > “There are 1 million people in this city” vs. “There are 1 million humans in this city.” Tell me the sex ratio of those people in the same style of sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/14 "2015-04-10T20:58:57Z")
I don’t get out much, so most of the time I hear this it’s on some type of talk show. I think most recently on a court show. IIRC, one of participants had keyed up her ex boyfriends car or some such nonsense because he was in her words… ‘riding with another female’. While I have no doubt guys say it too, I don’t use guys as a barometer for acceptable speech. It’s been woman using it that way that has stood out for me. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/15 "2015-04-10T21:06:04Z")
It depends on _ **how** _ you are saying it. If you say “FEE-male” (accentuating the first syllable), it turns the word into something negative, if you ask me. Kind of like the way “The-” changes words like -job, -house, -wife, etc. into something negative. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/16 "2015-04-10T21:06:22Z")
> [@Stuffy](#): > > I don’t get out much, so most of the time I hear this it’s on some type of talk show. I think most recently on a court show. IIRC, one of participants had keyed up her ex boyfriends car or some such nonsense because he was in her words… ‘riding with another female’. While I have no doubt guys say it too, I don’t use guys as a barometer for acceptable speech. It’s been woman using it that way that has stood out for me. If she had used any of the synonyms for female instead (woman, girl, chick, lady, etc.) would it have stood out as much? It seems to me you’re getting hung up on semantics and not the context (i.e. she was upset he was with another woman, so no matter what word she would’ve used, it would sound as derogatory as if she’d said “bitch”). ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/17 "2015-04-10T21:07:39Z")
I forgot to mention that the term “females” to refer to women does seem to be in some American dialects as a neutral thing. And another commenter said it’s used in the Marines, since a lot of things are more clinically referred to there. There are some exceptions to when “females” is okay to use. > [@Shagnasty](#): > > I have heard the objections and I think it is a stupid complaint in general. I use the term ‘males’ all the time even on this board and it is just as inoffensive as ‘female’ is. The reason that it isn’t offensive and is often necessary is that there aren’t any other formal terms that are inclusive of either sex that are not also age or class specific. ‘Gentlemen’ or even ‘men’ don’t always fit just like ‘ladies’ and ‘women’ don’t if you are writing about something that applies to all members of the sex from newborns to the elderly. That distinction is important in some contexts, especially biological and medical discussions among many others. > > BTW, ‘Female’ can function as either a noun or an adjective. For this type of usage, it is a noun just like the competing terms. I looked searched for “males” in posts in the board here, and it does seem that some people do say “males” sometimes. It does seem strange linguistically to me, since most of those times people aren’t referring to the full male spectrum of from baby boys to elderly men. And seeing just “males” or “females” makes me think more of animals. Like from a nature documentary hearing the narrator say “the female is stalking her prey.” Like here is one of your posts where you say males: > [@Why are the Dutch so tall?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-the-dutch-so-tall/289178/22): > > I always wondered about that too. I am of 100% American Southern descent with deep English, Scottish and some Scandinavian roots. I am either 6’1" or 6"2 depending on the time of day that you measure me. I have always been slightly taller than average but it wasn’t really notable until I moved to the Northeast. I feel like an absolute giant compared to most people here no matter where their ancestors came from (largeky Southern European). However, even the English, Irish and black people aren’t nearly as big as they are in the South. Every time I go back home, I am immediately struck by the fact that I am far from the tallest person around for the first time in a long time. Some of them are just fat and moderately tall but certainly not all of them. The younger males, both black and white just tend to be unusually big compared to people in Boston or NYC. When I was just scanning down the thread for your post, and saw mention of “the younger males, both black and white” I thought at first you were talking about dogs or something, then I scanned back up and saw that you were talking about men in the Northeast. I’m an engineer, we’re not known for our language skills, but it just reads weird to me. I know that some people use the term females neutrally, but a lot of people do use it in a derogatory manner. A lot of times it doesn’t seem to be a substitution for “women” or “ladies,” it seems to be a substitution for “bitches.” And I don’t want to be the final arbiter of language that people use. But if a decent number of people say that they are bothered by a term, even if it doesn’t make sense to me or even seems dumb, I try to do as they ask. > [@tapu](#): > > This has been discussed for decades in Linguistics. If you’re interested in that aspect, you might search “female lawyer” “lady lawyer” “woman lawyer”. I want to make it clear, using “female” as an adjective is fine, using “female” or “females” as a noun is what’s off. “Female lawyer”, “female director”, “female students” are fine. But “I was talking to this female, and then…” or “the class was full of females” or something like that is not as good. And language always evolves. Some terms that were acceptable 50 years ago are now derogatory, and vice versa. Maybe “females” and “males” will become words that can be nouns or adjectives. But for now, it most cases, I’d say it’s not the best choice of word to use for noun. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/18 "2015-04-10T21:09:29Z")
One should use “females” if one wishes to refer to the biological sex of the people so indicated; “women” (or perhaps “girls”) to refer to the gender of the people so indicated. Admittedly in the majority of cases those are going to correspond anyway (cisgendered people being the majority and all that) but I would prefer some specificity of use. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/19 "2015-04-10T21:18:52Z")
Seriously, if the insanely neutral word “female” becomes generally and decidedly derogatory, just let me off this fucking planet. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363/20 "2015-04-10T21:22:10Z")
I know what the OP means, though, for one woman to be using it derogatorily to another in a specific kind of way. It kinda feels like there’s an implied “dog” in there…the speaker is basically saying “I’m too much of a lady to call her a bitch, but she totally is.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-female-devolving-into-a-derogatory/717363.md?page=2)