# Why is fur bad, but leather is OK? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2005, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154 "2005-12-18T11:12:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/21 "2005-12-18T23:57:45Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > Huh? Fur is very practical. It’s a natural insulator, designed to cut the wind and trap the body heat. It’s very effective at that task - that’s why the farther north you go, the more heavily furred the animals get. A good muskrat hat is one of the best headgear going, when it’s -30 and the wind’s blowing. That’s why the Canadian Mounties wear them. > > Now, some people may not wear fur in situations where it’s not practical - that’s a different issue entirely. Yes, that’s true, and a lot of people don’t protest against practical fur items like hats and fur-lined coats that are worn as an insulator. Most of the time fur is targeted with red paint, it is the fashion fur coats that get it. I think there is also an element of class warfare to this distinction, fur is really expensive and an obvious signal of high class status. (I have little problem with practical uses of fur myself, even if there are materials just as good that can be substituted.) And yep, more or less the entire cow is used, including the hooves and eyeballs. Very economical. ---
**Author:** ![Jet\_Jaguar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jet_jaguar/32/3562_2.png) [@Jet\_Jaguar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jet_Jaguar)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/22 "2005-12-19T01:02:50Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t know who said it first, but I’ve been hearing it for 25 years. It’s been around awhile. Probably originated with a stand up comic but darn if I know. I’ve heard that a few times in motorcycling circles. There’s some truth to it, if someone threw red paint on my riding jacket then somebody is going to get hurt (and it ain’t going to be me). For some reason they never pick on the guy in the armored leather jacket and gloves with kevlar knuckle guards. Leather is preferred for motorcycling gear because no textile matches the abrasion resistance of motorcycle-grade leather. Leather is good for 80-100 feet of sliding on pavement before wearing through. The best textiles are good for 70-80 feet, while denim wears through in about 5 ft. BTW, I think this question is too emotionally charged to get an unbiased answer. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/23 "2005-12-19T01:56:22Z")
Banning leather essentially asks you to be a vegetarian as well as not kill animals. Bannning fur coats just asks you to not kill a particular type of animal. Easier sell basically. Otara ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/24 "2005-12-19T02:23:58Z")
> [@BlackNGold](#): > > Even if it was a fake leather (do they have that?) Yes thay do, and who knows how many countless thousands of naugas have given their lives for the sake of fake leather coats and Lay-Z-Boys. Won’t anyone think of the naugas? ---
**Author:** ![lalaith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@lalaith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalaith)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/25 "2005-12-19T02:44:52Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > The only animal that might be used for both fur and meat is the rabbit, but I don’t know if the rabbits at fur farms are actually used as meat. I’m not going to claim I know a lot about rabbit fur farms. However, I do know a lot about rabbits. I kept rabbits as house pets for many years. Years ago there were not many books about rabbits as pets. Most of the books were written for commercial breeders. Consequently, I have read a lot about this though it was a topic that appalled me. (How would you feel reading a book that discussed the slaughter of the dog warming your feet? I’m also not fond of flipping through a cookbook and see a recipe for bunny in it.) In general, bunnies (excluding rabbits shot in the wild) slaughtered for food are done so when they are quite young, usually not too long after they are weaned. Maybe it’s because the meat is more tender. Maybe it’s because that’s a good portion size. Fur bunnies are older when killed since they would be larger and you get a bigger pelt. I don’t know what happens to the rest of the remains, probably it’s the same thing that happens to mink or chinchilla remains. And you can just guess what my opinion is of using these wonderful, affectionate creatures as food or clothing. ---
**Author:** ![lalaith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@lalaith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalaith)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/26 "2005-12-19T02:46:11Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > The only animal that might be used for both fur and meat is the rabbit, but I don’t know if the rabbits at fur farms are actually used as meat. I’m not going to claim I know a lot about rabbit fur farms. However, I do know a lot about rabbits. I kept rabbits as house pets for many years. Years ago there were not many books about rabbits as pets. Most of the books were written for commercial breeders. Consequently, I have read a lot about this though it was a topic that appalled me. (How would you feel reading a book that discussed the slaughter of the dog warming your feet? I’m also not fond of flipping through a cookbook and see a recipe for bunny in it.) In general, bunnies (excluding rabbits shot in the wild) slaughtered for food are done so when they are quite young, usually not too long after they are weaned. Maybe it’s because the meat is more tender. Maybe it’s because that’s a good portion size. Fur bunnies are older when killed since they would be larger and you get a bigger pelt. I don’t know what happens to the rest of the remains, probably it’s the same thing that happens to mink or chinchilla remains. And you can just guess what my opinion is of using these wonderful, affectionate creatures as food or clothing. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/27 "2005-12-19T02:47:58Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > They are usually electrocuted through a probe placed in the anus, which most veterinary/animal health type people say causes great pain to the animal. The only method of euthanasia approved for mink by the Fur Commission USA, representing 420 mink farmers, is bottled gas, either pure carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/28 "2005-12-19T02:52:58Z")
Is there some reason we don’t wear cat fur coats? I’m just asking. They look pretty warm. And some of them would make very pretty coats (spotted cat on my desk, I’m looking at _you)._ ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/29 "2005-12-19T02:55:53Z")
I’ll add that virtually all mink farmers in the U.S. are members of the FCUSA. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/30 "2005-12-19T02:59:35Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > Most animals used for their fur (minks, chinchillas, etc) are not used for food. There is not enough meat, and what there is is often considered inedible or just not tasty enough to salvage. Some farmers sell them as crab bait, or give them to wildlife preserves, zoos or aquariums. Others will use them to make organic compost. Or they may be rendered down to provide raw materials for a wide range of products, from pet food and organic fertilizers to tires, paint and even cosmetics. Just as with hogs and cattle, nothing goes to waste. ---
**Author:** ![lalaith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@lalaith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalaith)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/31 "2005-12-19T04:19:03Z")
> [@Hilarity N. Suze](#): > > Is there some reason we don’t wear cat fur coats? I’m just asking. They look pretty warm. And some of them would make very pretty coats (spotted cat on my desk, I’m looking at _you)._ I saw a news report about a woman who would knit sweaters or other clothing from pet hair you sent her. The items supposedly stank, though you’d think they wouldn’t after you washed it. And sorry about posting that one item twice. The system froze when I was posting it the first time and I didn’t think it went through. Next time I’ll check. Maybe a moderator can remove one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/32 "2005-12-19T04:32:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Then there’s the old saw that it’s easier to protest and harass little old ladies in fur coats than to do the same to biker gangs in leather. > [@](#): > > Who said this? > It is quite amusing I first remember reading it in an essay by some science fiction writer many years ago. It sounds like something Larry Niven or Spider Robinson or Jerry Pournelle might have said. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/33 "2005-12-19T05:22:22Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > > [@Makei III](#): > > > > I know nobody will agree with me, but the answer is that cows and pigs and goats don’t look like cute babies. > > Totally agree; it’s purely based on emotion. > > There’s a strong correlation IMO between the animals people want to protect and how “cute” they are. With the exception of ARA’s, not many people are bothered by the slaughter of (ugly) cows and chickens. Yet they get perturbed when “cute” animals are killed, especially “soft cuddly” ones and animals with Big Brown Eyes[sup]TM[/sup]. **Crafter\_Man** , who are you quoting here? I don’t see the post you’re quoting anywhere in the thread. Or did I miss something? Adam ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/34 "2005-12-19T05:26:43Z")
I don’t know where that post is, now, but I do remember seeing it. It’s not just **Crafter\_Man**. But I don’t see it, now. So it’s not just you, either. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/35 "2005-12-19T05:39:08Z")
> [@Hilarity N. Suze](#): > > Is there some reason we don’t wear cat fur coats? I’m just asking. They look pretty warm. And some of them would make very pretty coats (spotted cat on my desk, I’m looking at _you)._ A friend of mine who did fieldwork in Bulgaria tells me that he saw cat fur coats for sale there in the mid-1980’s. He said that people there tended not to think of cats - at least not feral cats - as potential pets, but instead regarded them more as vermin or nuisance animals. Apparently the fur doesn’t stand up to use very well (think about how readily cats shed) and the coats look nasty very quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Coil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Coil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coil)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/36 "2005-12-19T12:22:10Z")
In my opinion it is probably the combination of fur wearers being a smaller group and less likely to be big nasty bikers and a bit of class warfare (envy). ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/37 "2005-12-19T14:51:04Z")
Hilarity N. Suze: > [@](#): > > Is there some reason we don’t wear cat fur coats? Because there are 1001 ways to skin a cat, so the indecision of which method is best paralyzes the would-be cat furriers. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/38 "2005-12-19T15:20:47Z")
Let me reiterate that I am not trying to turn this into a debate at all – merely bringing to attention a fact that is easy to overlook in a long discussion like this… There are people who are opposed (philosophically) to fur AND leather, and are generally vegetarian or vegan. That doesn’t invalidate the initial question, about people who are NOT opposed to both. I merely metnion it because a lot of folks I’ve met take cracks at all vegans for their “hypocrisy” in only saving cute animals, or wearing leather. Just because some do does not mean that all do, and certainly doesn’t make all of them hypocrites. We now return you to your previously scheduled thread. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/39 "2005-12-19T15:36:59Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Then there’s the old saw that it’s easier to protest and harass little old ladies in fur coats than to do the same to biker gangs in leather Once heard on _Hollywood Squares_: Q: Paul, why do Hell’s Angels wear leather? A: Paul Lynde: Because chiffon wrinkles too easily. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154/40 "2005-12-19T17:05:01Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Hilarity N. Suze: > > Because there are 1001 ways to skin a cat, so the indecision of which method is best paralyzes the would-be cat furriers. I did not know that. I just knew there was “more than one” and left it at that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-fur-bad-but-leather-is-ok/336154.md?page=3)