# Why is George Lucas despised by so many Star Wars fans? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 19, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095 "2009-03-19T23:59:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/161 "2009-03-26T03:09:30Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > You don’t even qualify as an apprentice geek. “Star Wars” is episode IV, unless you meant the fourth one filmed, which would be TPM. “The Empire Strikes Back” was labeled as episode V, but the fifth one filmed was “Attack of the Clones.” “Clone Wars” was animated. That was intentional, Padawan. Good catch, you are proceeding well with your training. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/162 "2009-03-26T03:40:05Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I know my idea would be thrown right in the trash can though, by the vast majority of Star Wars superfans. Most of them are obsessed with the Clone Wars storyline, even while they trash George Lucas (who spoon-fed it to them in the first place.) THE CLONE WARS IS A LAME STORY! I have to agree. To be honest, I don’t even remember what the point of the Clone Wars was and I don’t care. And it wouldn’t even have been _that_ bad if it had been limited to AotC. But they keep fucking dwelling on it. Does anyone seriously care about anything that happened immediately before _Star Wars_ at this point? It’s all a bunch of goofy Jedi who we know die anyway and a war that we already know the outcome of. Can’t we just move on already instead of dwelling in the lame-o prequelverse? The one good thing to come out of the entire Clone Wars concept was those short cartoons like, five years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/163 "2009-03-26T04:15:50Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > The one good thing to come out of the entire Clone Wars concept was those short cartoons like, five years ago. Which Lucas also had nothing to do with. I’m seeing a trend. To go back to the issue of Obi-Wan’s age, I think it’s fairly well established among prequel fans (yes, they exist) that Obi-Wan was 25 in TPM. If AOTC takes place ten years later (correct? Anakin hasn’t seen Padme in 10 years?) and ROTS is three years after that, then Obi-Wan is 38 when he moves to Tattoine and 58 when he dies. Still kinda young for how he looks, but it’s not unbelievable. Wish I could cite that better. I was a Star Wars geek some time back, and though I hated the prequels, I kinda fell in love with the universe - the concept of a Jedi temple especially - and I read a LOT of fanfic dealing with pre-prequels and post TPM. I know Obi-Wan as a 25 year old padawan (which is a \*really \*old padawan, btw)was commonly accepted in fandom. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/164 "2009-03-26T04:20:11Z")
I always thought the coolest thing about Star Wars, aside from Han Solo, was the Empire. You know how people say, “Nazis were the best thing ever to happen to movies?” Well I think the Empire is basically an extension of that concept. Everything about the Empire is Nazi-like, so they make the best bad guys of all time. They’re just so sinister, yet so classy. A Star Wars movie without the Empire is never going to be as cool as one with them (which is why I think the prequels should have been set further forward in time, dealing less with the clone bullshit and much more with the foundation of the Empire.) ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/165 "2009-03-26T09:45:19Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I’ve seen the script, but never actually the deleted scene before. That’s really cool. It’s a shame it got cut; Mark Hamill did more convincing acting in those 3 minutes than he did in all 3 movies. The girl is **Koo Stark** who was involved with Prince Andrew and starred in the softcore film Emily where you get to see her naked body at great lenghts. ---
**Author:** ![badbadrubberpiggy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/57b2e6/32.png) [@badbadrubberpiggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badbadrubberpiggy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/166 "2009-03-26T18:50:58Z")
Reading this thread just reminded me how utterly forgettable episodes I-III were. They were boring movies. If the episodes IV-VI were never made, and they were stand-alone stories, we wouldn’t be talking about them right now because most people would’ve forgotten about them. They weren’t the worst movies ever made, but I can see why people would be so dissapointed in them. The first three (well, last, depending on how you’re counting) were great. They were entertaining, and even when the acting wasn’t great the cast still worked really well together. Leia & Han had chemistry. Anakin & Naboo might as well have been brother & sister. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/167 "2009-03-26T20:16:11Z")
I wanted to expand on what I said earlier. I said Lucas pulled back and did the “safe” things. I still hold that. Look at TPM. Well, there’s the cute kid character, the marketable action figures, the stupid, silly comic relief which is also a token alien. I liked the action sequences individually, but they were kinda “scheduled”, spaced mechanically and so forth. Analing should never have been the cute kid. He should have introduced as a late teenager, gutsy and (sort of a Han Solo figure). He could have fulfilled the 'action man role". He didn’t have to be angsty later on, but that was the “safe” thing, so it happened. I disagree that Qui-Gon was a useless character, because he sort of sets up and explains a lot about Obi-Wan, providing him with a role model. I would have preferred that Obi-Wan be a little older and a full, though young, Jedi. I hated the Amidala character. I do not care how many critics fawn over Natalie Portman, or how well she acted in other movies; she was only decent in The Phantom Menace and outright terrible in the next two. I won’t say that was exactly her fault, but it’s not precisely to her credit, either. I liked Hayden Christenson… but he, like Portman, needs strong direction in order to perform well. Overall, I think that despite Lucas’s plotting weaknesses, his big failing is the man can’t direct people well. Some actors can overcome this and bring their experience to the table. Harrison Ford, Alec Guiness, Neeson and McGregor - they don’t constant help, and they were all very experienced actors before the Star Wars films. Those who hadn’t perhaps had that level of personal stage knowledge just floundered, without a definite character role to play. Perhaps most of all, I wsh that Liucas had been willing to focus a little more on the huge majesty of the battles and the grand collapse of the Republic and its recreation as the nightmarish Empire. He’s never quite willing to show us what the Empire _is_, just what symbols it uses. It wouldnt have to be very much, mind you, just a taste of the whole show. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/168 "2009-03-26T21:24:46Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > The girl is **Koo Stark** who was involved with Prince Andrew and starred in the softcore film Emily where you get to see her naked body at great lenghts. Jesus, Koo Stark? What the hell is it with Lucas and these idiotic character names? What? That’s the _actress_? Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/169 "2009-03-27T01:58:54Z")
There’s something else I need to say, too - the character names in the prequels were just too fucking silly-sounding! The original movies had characters with names that sounded vaguely realistic, yet also vaguely fantastical. It was that mix of both that made them memorable. Luke Skywalker - a common Christian name combined with a fantasy last name. Han Solo - a modified German name, combined with a Latin word that represented his independent nature. Princess Leia - derived from a Hebrew name, and very dignified-sounding. Darth Vader - Fantasy-esque first name with a German last name which means “father,” appropriately. Obi-Wan Kenobi - made-up name but sounds vaguely Japanese. Went by “Ben,” a Hebrew name. Even the names for the aliens also had this mixture of reality and fantasy: Jabba the Hutt - made up first name, and English-sounding last name (which was actually a title.) Greedo - a greedy bastard trying to take Han Solo’s money. Chewie - a little silly, but an actual English word at least phoenetically, and a pretty believable nickname. The prequel names were altogether TOO fantastical sounding, either that or they were just ridiculously silly. It just…I don’t know, lacked character. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/170 "2009-03-27T02:02:28Z")
Dooku? _Dooku?_ ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/171 "2009-03-27T02:50:16Z")
Yeah, I agree on the name thing. The ones that weren’t outright awful were forgettable and just didn’t have any kind of ring to them. Darths Maul, Sidious, and Tyrannus all sound lame compared to “Vader,” (especially since the latter should be an alien space dinosaur and wasn’t) and the Jedi largely suffer from goofy names (although I have a soft spot for “Plo Koon,” because really?). They were in trouble as soon as they made such a big deal out of the freaking “Trade Federation.” Seriously? Are they going to kill you with space tariffs? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/172 "2009-03-27T03:27:29Z")
> [@badbadrubberpiggy](#): > > Reading this thread just reminded me how utterly forgettable episodes I-III were. They were boring movies. If the episodes IV-VI were never made, and they were stand-alone stories, we wouldn’t be talking about them right now because most people would’ve forgotten about them. They weren’t the worst movies ever made, but I can see why people would be so dissapointed in them. Oh, I disagree. I think that if Episode I had been made as a stand-alone, then episodes II and III would never have been even thought of, except possibly by Lucas himself. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/173 "2009-03-27T04:19:19Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Perhaps most of all, I wsh that Liucas had been willing to focus a little more on the huge majesty of the battles and the grand collapse of the Republic and its recreation as the nightmarish Empire. In summer '04, months before Revenge of the Sith came out, I was at a comic-book convention in suburban Chicago. I went to a panel hosted by Steve Sansweet (noted SW collector, who now works for Lucasfilm as a spokesman), giving previews for RotS. He showed some stills from the battle on Kashyyyk (the Wookiee homeworld) from the upcoming movie, and talked about just how amazing and epic this battle was going to be. I heard and saw this, and thought to myself, “cool, maybe this will help keep this movie from stinking like the first two prequels did.” 9 months later, RotS comes out, and the Battle of Kashyyyk had, what, 90 seconds of screen time? Arrrrgh!!! ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/174 "2009-03-27T05:43:21Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > They were in trouble as soon as they made such a big deal out of the freaking “Trade Federation.” Seriously? Are they going to kill you with space tariffs? No, they’re going to kill you with their manufacturing base. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/175 "2009-03-27T06:01:27Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Chewie - a little silly, but an actual English word at least phoenetically, and a pretty believable nickname. It’s also the nickname for Mexican guys named Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/176 "2009-03-27T12:57:51Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > No, they’re going to kill you with their manufacturing base. All you base are … nevermind, I can’t do it… ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/177 "2009-03-27T14:33:05Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Chewie - a little silly, but an actual English word at least phoenetically, and a pretty believable nickname. Yes, but in the legendarily bad “Star Wars Holiday Special”, we met Chewie’s family, including his son Lumpy, and his father (or maybe it was his father-in-law) Itchy. I kid you not. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/178 "2009-03-27T14:38:03Z")
Little did we know at the time, but the quality of the Holiday Special was the baseline and the first movie was the exception. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/179 "2009-03-27T14:44:29Z")
> **[Film Threat Your Independent Movie Guide](https://filmthreat.com/?section=features&Id=172)** > > Rated one of the top independent film review sites worldwide specializing in movie news, filmmaker interviews, film festival coverage and indie DIY how-tos This article came out a few years before Phamtom Menace. Now take it and turn it up to 11, and you get the prequels… ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095/180 "2009-03-27T18:10:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Suppose George Lucas had been hit by a truck back in 1982. His filmography would consist essentially of the following: _THX 1138_, _American Graffiti_, _Star Wars_, _The Empire Strikes Back_, and _Raiders of the Lost Ark_ (I’m leaving out his executive producer credits) - he’d be remembered as one of the lost giants of movie making who was struck down in his prime. > > Now suppose somebody else had come along and bought the rights to Lucas’ estate. And they had gone on to make _Return of the Jedi_ and _Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom_ (which were serious drop-offs from the earlier works in those series). Suppose this guy used Lucas’ estate to make _Howard the Duck_ and _Willow_. Suppose he went back and re-edited Lucas’ early classics to make them “better”. Suppose after twenty years he decided to milk the cow to death and make a new Star Wars series, which he claimed was the real trilogy, and make Indiana Jones fight the Commies. > > And that’s what actually happened. The only difference is that the guy who trashed George Lucas’ legacy was George Lucas himself. > > Besides Lucas wasn’t all that in the first place. _Star Wars_ didn’t start the golden age of science fiction movies - it ended it. It made the genre about cool special effects rather than cool ideas and turned science fiction into sci-fi. So even at his peak, Lucas was entertaining but never thought-provoking. Lucas is a fallen Stephen Spielberg. Bravo! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-george-lucas-despised-by-so-many-star-wars-fans/490095.md?page=10)