# Why is giving someone a job sometimes considered a favor? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 25, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298 "2013-02-25T00:50:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/21 "2013-02-25T18:41:58Z")
Suppose you have a job opening. Two applicants are roughly equivalent in talent and ability, but you know one (or maybe his father), so you give him the job as a favor. People are not hired because they’re the best fit for a job. They are hired because the person doing the hiring likes them. Further, people don’t hire employees because they have extra money lying around. They hire employees because they need someone to do the work. If they get extra money and already have enough people to do the work, they will just bank that money ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/22 "2013-02-25T19:36:18Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Suppose you have a job opening. Two applicants are roughly equivalent in talent and ability, but you know one (or maybe his father), so you give him the job as a favor. > > People are not hired because they’re the best fit for a job. They are hired because the person doing the hiring likes them. Liking (or at least tolerating) someone is part of being the best fit. The fact is that while we want to hire the “best fit” for a job, it’s impossible to tell who that will be. You can interview and test and ask for referrals all you want. But at the end of the day, there are just way too many variables in terms of skills, experience, personality types, work styles and other factors. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/23 "2013-02-25T20:00:57Z")
> [@brainstall](#): > > But if you really, really wanted that job because you love teaching magic to kids and the stipend was the difference between keeping your apartment or going homeless, and eight other equally qualified applicants were vying for it as well, then being given the job does feel like being granted a favour. In that circumstance, sure. I submit that that circumstance doesn’t come up that often: very rarely are all applicants equally qualified. > [@msmith537](#): > > It’s a “favor” in the sense that if I refer you to a company I work for, it places your resume closer to the top of the pile than if you had gone through normal channels. Also, to a certain extent I am vouching for your ability to do the job. Your performance is a reflection on me as the person who referred you. So turn it around. If I then excel at my job, my excellence reflects favorably on you, I assume. By excelling at my job, am I doing you a favor? Presumably the company only respects your recommendation inasmuch as they consider you a good judge of character. If you regularly recommend people who are drunken louts (and you’re not recommending them, say, for reality TV slots), your recommendation will stop being respected. I guess a favor seems to me like a situation in which one party does something for the second party that’s mildly inconvenient, doing it mainly for the pleasure of doing something nice, or to incur the good will of the second (or third) party. When the first party is hiring the second party, they’re not doing something inconvenient, and they’re not doing it for the pleasure of doing something nice, and they’re not trying to incur the good will of the second (or third) party. The hiring party is hiring because they think they’ll directly benefit from their action. And that’s fine, but it’s not a favor. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/24 "2013-02-25T20:31:59Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So turn it around. If I then excel at my job, my excellence reflects favorably on you, I assume. By excelling at my job, am I doing you a favor? No, you are expected to do your job well. That’s why you are paid. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I guess a favor seems to me like a situation in which one party does something for the second party that’s mildly inconvenient, doing it mainly for the pleasure of doing something nice, or to incur the good will of the second (or third) party. What makes you think it isn’t a mild inconvenience to submit someone’s resume? Even if it’s not inconvenient, it’s not something I “have” to do. Chances are I wasn’t sitting around hoping one of my acquaintences needed to submit a resume. I could also not submit it and see how far you get. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/25 "2013-02-25T21:13:37Z")
There are two things invoved. One is the one-time act of hiring somebody, and two is the ongoing employment relationship. The hiring can be a favor to a friend or acquaintace in need, certainly. It could even be a favor to a stranger applying for the job. The ongoing employment should still be equitable. The worker shouldn’t phone it in, nor should the boss hold the favor over the worker’s head to justify poor treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/26 "2013-02-25T21:21:59Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > There’s risk involved in accepting a job, too. > … > This isn’t a “favors” relationship, it’s a quid pro quo relationship. The _amount_ of risk involved in offering someone a job, or in accepting a job, can vary quite a bit; and the employer may have a lot more to lose than the employee, or vice versa. I thought about mentioning this explicitly, but I thought it was obvious. Anyway, note that the question is “Why is giving a job **sometimes** considered a favor?” None of the answers we’re giving to that question need apply universally to all job-giving situations. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/27 "2013-02-25T21:26:25Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > No, you are expected to do your job well. That’s why you are paid. Yet you benefit from my doing my job well, just as I benefited from your referring me. > [@](#): > > What makes you think it isn’t a mild inconvenience to submit someone’s resume? Even if it’s not inconvenient, it’s not something I “have” to do. > … > I could also not submit it and see how far you get. Indeed you could. And if you didn’t submit it, then you wouldn’t get the minor reflected glory of having recommended someone awesome. That said, sure: if you’re recommending someone for a job, despite the inconvenience of doing so, primarily for the pleasure of doing something nice, then it’s a favor. But if you’re making the recommendation because your company encourages you to do so, and you figure it’ll be a win-win-win situation, then that’s not a favor, that’s just rational behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/28 "2013-02-25T21:30:19Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > The _amount_ of risk involved in offering someone a job, or in accepting a job, can vary quite a bit; and the employer may have a lot more to lose than the employee, or vice versa. I thought about mentioning this explicitly, but I thought it was obvious. It may be obvious, but I’m not sure it pertains. If you take a risk on an employee, not because you want to do something nice for them, but because the expected payoff for a successful risk is high, that’s still not a favor. As I’ve acknowledged previously, there are circumstances under which a job is a favor. I don’t need someone to mow my lawn, but you’re a nice neighborhood kid and I like your family, so I pay you $25 to do the job. That’s a favor: the benefit I get is an improved neighborhood relationship and a feeling of being nice. I just think that those circumstances are relatively rare. Most jobs offers are made and accepted because both employer and employee thinks it’s in their self-interest to do so, not because of any favors. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/29 "2013-02-25T21:35:25Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yet you benefit from my doing my job well, just as I benefited from your referring me. Not if you don’t work for me or in my department. How much of a “favor” depends. If I give a friend a job because they are the uncontested expert in their field, that’s less of a “favor” than if I just need any old college grad with your background. IOW, sure I need SOMEONE to do a job. The question is how much do I need YOU to do it? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/30 "2013-02-25T22:08:13Z")
I don’t know whether to be impressed or disappointed that no one’s yet tried to make a joke about giving someone a “job” :o 😉 as a favor. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/31 "2013-02-25T23:03:53Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I also have a problem with the belief that all jobs should be a net positive for the employer. What about not-for-profit organizations, churches, and other organizations who are not motivated by profit? Jobs in places like that are seeking the best candidates for the jobs, but they aren’t trying to squeeze out more value from each employee than they are paying them back in compensation. That’s not been my experience in nonprofits. Not for profit is a tax status, really, and that’s about it. They certainly expect their employees to deliver work for the money and sometimes yes, more value than they’re paying. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/32 "2013-02-26T01:08:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > When the first party is hiring the second party, they’re not doing something inconvenient, and they’re not doing it for the pleasure of doing something nice, and they’re not trying to incur the good will of the second (or third) party. The hiring party is hiring because they think they’ll directly benefit from their action. And that’s fine, but it’s not a favor. I agree. I literally did not even apply for my current job nor know anyone there or even know that it existed. I got cold called and hired instantly with nothing other than a web resume for a crisis situation that was about to result in a breach of contract for a large consulting company and they had to produce a qualified person within 24 hours after some terrible things happened or face severe financial penalties. I am not sure who was doing who a favor on that one. I needed a job at the time but they couldn’t find anyone that could do it and I certainly suffered hard for the first few months until I got the whole operation stable. It worked out great for me in the end and it is probably the best job I ever had even though they certainly get their money’s worth and I have to produce consistently great solutions (sometimes magic tricks) day after day. That is part of why I asked the question. I have gotten other jobs because I knew someone but some of those didn’t work out worth a damn and yet it is the same field and I am roughly same person as I was then (except with more experience now). As long as you are doing your job well, I don’t think anyone is doing you a true favor for hiring you. Another word might be more appropriate but it certainly isn’t a gift. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/33 "2013-02-26T02:32:28Z")
> [@lorene](#): > > That’s not been my experience in nonprofits. Not for profit is a tax status, really, and that’s about it. They certainly expect their employees to deliver work for the money and sometimes yes, more value than they’re paying. I was just scrolling down to post this same thing. In my experience non-profits are notorious for overworking and underpaying. Nonprofit doesn’t mean they don’t care about making money, development meetings toward the end of the quarter can be very uncomfortable gatherings. You gotta love what you’re doing and buy into the mission. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/34 "2013-02-26T02:58:00Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is a good example. Is he fulfilling his job duties however? Your son is working and not getting free money. I don’t know the situation but the Dean would be irresponsible if your son wasn’t providing at least as much value as he is getting paid. It was a summer job last summer. My son had a stroke about a year and a half before which left him with vision problems, orientation and coordination problems, and memory problems. There is no way he could have competed with his peers for summer jobs. The dean of my wife’s school basically created the job for him and hired him into it. His supervisor understood his disabilities and was willing to work to accomadate them. The job was as much therapy as work. He did do what they asked of him, but it was pretty straightforward and simple tasks. It was a great experience for my son and a huge relief for my wife and me to know he had a regular job in a safe and nuturing atmosphere. It was most definitely a favor. My son continues to improve, and except for left-field blindness we expect him to eventually make a full recovery. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/35 "2013-02-26T14:37:23Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I also have a problem with the belief that all jobs should be a net positive for the employer. What about not-for-profit organizations, churches, and other organizations who are not motivated by profit? Jobs in places like that are seeking the best candidates for the jobs, but they aren’t trying to squeeze out more value from each employee than they are paying them back in compensation. They aren’t. Some jobs are revenue centers like sales while others are cost centers like HR and accounting. Salaries are typically set by the market. That is to say, for a given company size and role in a given demographic, you aren’t going to find much variation in salary. I can’t just pay an accountant 20% less than every other firm in town otherwise I’ll get the employee who can’t get a job in any other firm in town. But all companies, whether non profits or corporations want to maximize how productive their employees are. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/36 "2013-02-26T15:30:08Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > I was just scrolling down to post this same thing. In my experience non-profits are notorious for overworking and underpaying. Nonprofit doesn’t mean they don’t care about making money, development meetings toward the end of the quarter can be very uncomfortable gatherings. You gotta love what you’re doing and buy into the mission. Indeed; with nonprofits, it’s often more like the employee is doing a favor for the agency, if you define “favor” as doing something inconvenient (i.e., working for less money than you could get elsewhere) in exchange for a nice feeling inside. I know when I worked for nonprofits I earned a lot less than I earned at for-profits doing similar work. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298/37 "2013-02-26T21:17:40Z")
I don’t consider it a “favor”. Working at my company should generally be reserved as a form of punishment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-giving-someone-a-job-sometimes-considered-a-favor/651298.md?page=1)