# Why is Harry Potter such a huge phenomenon? (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 11, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719 "2016-09-11T23:13:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/41 "2016-09-14T07:24:37Z")
Those kids aren’t learning math or history in school. Just magic. They’re going to get left behind. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/42 "2016-09-14T09:22:54Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Those kids aren’t learning math or history in school. Just magic. They’re going to get left behind. They learn Arithmancy, History of Magic, Potions (aka Chemistry), and Astronomy. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/43 "2016-09-14T09:38:37Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Off the top of my head, I can’t think of a really big one since Narnia. Earthsea was pretty big. Anyway, I think people saying “How can this be so big? There’s no logical consistency!!!” are making a mistake of some sort - they assume _everyone_ else prizes logical consistency in their fictional worlds above other concerns. Well, that’s not the case, and it’s even less the case with kids. All I know is, on Saturday I had dinner with friends who’d been to Europe last month, and their older kid (who is 11) was absolutely _bursting_ to show me the wand he’d bought at Hamley’s (It was lovely a full-weighted Death Eater skull&snake-handled one, so the kid shows promise). This boy’s parents hadn’t even _met_ until 4 years after the first book came out, so he decidedly wasn’t part of any popular fad. Which tells me the books have staying power and also continuing kid appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/44 "2016-09-14T10:06:57Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > They learn Arithmancy, History of Magic, Potions (aka Chemistry), and Astronomy. Thanks, I can stop worrying about them now. I wish we had gematria as an option in my school 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jessaragen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3e96dc/32.png) [@jessaragen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jessaragen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/45 "2016-09-14T11:30:39Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > It came out at just the right time, right publisher, etc. Plus, at least for the first book: > > 1. He’s an outsider kid who thinks he’s nothing, then finds out he’s got really magical parents (though dead), and is whisked away to a fabulous fun place where he has real friends and adventures! > 2. There’s a lot of humor and mischief and kids getting away with stuff. > 3. The background world has just enough detail to enthrall without overwhelm. This allows for fairly successful expansion in the later books > 4. There’s a wonderful villain. No, not Voldemort. Snape! > > I’m sure there are other reasons as well. Snape is a misunderstood hero! ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/46 "2016-09-14T11:47:12Z")
I read the first book (as an adult) very soon after it was published. I knew nothing about it, had heard nothing about it, was looking through the children’s shelves at a bookshop and happened to pick it up. I started reading the first few pages, and couldn’t put it down. I bought it and rapidly read it right through, thoroughly enjoyed it, and couldn’t wait for the sequels as they came out. The third book is the best IMO, and they stopped being so enjoyable after that. The point is, I loved the first book on its own merits, without any hype or publicity, long before Harry Potter was a ‘thing’. I’m sure many other people felt the same way. ---
**Author:** ![jessaragen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3e96dc/32.png) [@jessaragen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jessaragen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/47 "2016-09-14T11:53:45Z")
100% agree. It is an amazing, exciting, touching story! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/48 "2016-09-14T11:54:10Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > In British printings, it is _Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone_. Rowling was convinced by the publisher to water down the title (and adjust the internal text) for Americans because the original title would not sell there – a choice she now regrets. I found that out a couple years after the first movie came out, but by then it was too late to pique my interest (granted I was an adult at the time). When I saw the movie with my kid sister I thought “oh, they meant the _philosopher’s_ stone, why didn’t they say that in the first place?”. Never got into the rest (in addition to the fact that the few pages I read were nothing to write home about either.) Now, the shifting hallway in the movie, that was some cool stuff. Not as good as the equivalent in the Haunted Mansion at the Magic Kingdom, but great nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/49 "2016-09-14T12:27:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Earthsea was pretty big. > > Anyway, I think people saying “How can this be so big? There’s no logical consistency!!!” are making a mistake of some sort - they assume _everyone_ else prizes logical consistency in their fictional worlds above other concerns. Well, that’s not the case, and it’s even less the case with kids. > > All I know is, on Saturday I had dinner with friends who’d been to Europe last month, and their older kid (who is 11) was absolutely _bursting_ to show me the wand he’d bought at Hamley’s (It was lovely a full-weighted Death Eater skull&snake-handled one, so the kid shows promise). This boy’s parents hadn’t even _met_ until 4 years after the first book came out, so he decidedly wasn’t part of any popular fad. Which tells me the books have staying power and also continuing kid appeal. A someone who frequents the Harry Potter worlds at Universal on a near-weekly basis I can honestly say the amount of under-10’s in those parks VASTLY outweigh the people of my age group (and older). The stories absolutely still have staying power for young kids. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/50 "2016-09-14T13:07:50Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > 4 doesn’t make as much sense. I remember liking Snape from the movies, but I’m not sure how much that was the character and how much that was Alan Rickman. So far in the books he hasn’t seemed like a compelling villain. He’s an obstacle to the kids, but usually not too difficult to overcome. There you go. Children between the ages of 9 and 12 do not want their avatar in the book to be faced with a teacher who they cannot hoodwink. They want to read about a mean teacher they CAN hoodwink. Sure, there’s a bazillion logical holes in the books. It ain’t about logic, it’s about feelings. Emotions are what work in art. Rowling isn’t Shakespeare and her world-building has a lot of flaws, but in “Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone” she absolutely nailed what being a kid Harry’s age is like. Harry’s self-doubt, his terror at being rejected and ostracized, his fear of authority, are palpable. The book speaks to that age group with incredible insight into the emotions kids that age feel. Kids (and most people) don’t give a rat’s ass about how Quidditch makes no sense and Hermione should logically be in Ravenclaw and Azkaban blah blah blah. They identify with Harry Potter, and eventually want to BE Harry Potter. ---
**Author:** ![peedin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peedin/32/14095_2.png) [@peedin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peedin)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/51 "2016-09-14T13:13:38Z")
I hate fantasy and I hate science fiction but I love Harry Potter. Read them as an adult (and re-read them). I cannot explain why I love the books, but I do. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/52 "2016-09-14T13:15:40Z")
I wasn’t really into the HP phenomenon. All I could think when I read the first book was “This has been done so many times before.” DC comics had already done [Books of Magic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Books_of_Magic) seven years before, written by Neil Gaiman, about a 12-year old named Timothy Hunter destined to become the world’s greatest magician. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/53 "2016-09-14T13:19:10Z")
That feels a little like “no one should write a love song, because its been done.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/54 "2016-09-14T13:46:50Z")
…and Pratchett had written about a kid going to magic college in _Equal Rites_, and so had Le Guin in _Wizard of Earthsea_… …which is totally irrelevant to why kids like this iteration. I mean, a) there’s a distinct difference between comics and books as media b) it’ a mistake to place _HP_ solely in the “Gifted kid learns magic” genre. At least initially, it’s as much in the “boarding school story” and “kid investigators” genres, neither of which _BoM_ partakes of. c) _BoM_ isn’t actually KidLit, it’s mostly on Vertigo and probably wouldn’t get a ratings pass at most primary school libraries. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/55 "2016-09-14T14:01:44Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Those kids aren’t learning math or history in school. Just magic. They’re going to get left behind. > [@GuanoLad](#): > > They learn Arithmancy, History of Magic, Potions (aka Chemistry), and Astronomy. Does Arithmancy teach the kids any muggle world math? It seems to be more numerology or predicting things with math. It seems that Hogwarts teaches kids how to live in the wizard world, they would be left behind if they wanted to get jobs in the Muggle world. Unless you got an office job and were constantly using spells to look like you knew what you were doing and were doing your work. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Anyway, I think people saying “How can this be so big? There’s no logical consistency!!!” are making a mistake of some sort - they assume _everyone_ else prizes logical consistency in their fictional worlds above other concerns. Well, that’s not the case, and it’s even less the case with kids. > > All I know is, on Saturday I had dinner with friends who’d been to Europe last month, and their older kid (who is 11) was absolutely _bursting_ to show me the wand he’d bought at Hamley’s (It was lovely a full-weighted Death Eater skull&snake-handled one, so the kid shows promise). This boy’s parents hadn’t even _met_ until 4 years after the first book came out, so he decidedly wasn’t part of any popular fad. Which tells me the books have staying power and also continuing kid appeal. There are lots of great works of fiction that aren’t totally logically consistent, and I’m sure there are some very logically consistent works that just are otherwise not very good. But ideally when I read or watch something, if the work is good enough I’ll come away thinking about what was good, and what I liked about the characters and story and everything rather than the problems. And that didn’t happen for me. I was more wondering about the appeal for adults, since it’s not exclusively kids who are into Harry Potter. Like it’s not just millennials who are buying all the tickets for The Cursed Child in London. There have been some good answers in the thread. They are fine kids books, and I can see them staying popular for a long time, as kids continue to read them and growing up having loved them. It will be interesting to see what happens as the Harry Potter universe continues to expand and becomes more like Star Wars in that way. > [@Ludovic](#): > > Now, the shifting hallway in the movie, that was some cool stuff. Not as good as the equivalent in the Haunted Mansion at the Magic Kingdom, but great nonetheless. The shifting hallways and other structural weirdness of Hogwarts are fun. They’d be a nightmare to actually live with and have to get to classes, but are fun for a story. I’ve been interested in the Winchester Mystery House ever since I’d heard of it when I was young, so I can understand kids liking an even crazier fantasy type of structure. > [@RickJay](#): > > There you go. Children between the ages of 9 and 12 do not want their avatar in the book to be faced with a teacher who they cannot hoodwink. They want to read about a mean teacher they CAN hoodwink. Right, Snape is a decent foil for the kids in the first three books, but I didn’t see him as a “wonderful villain” like Prof. Pepperwinkle said. But later posts have said that he gets more interesting as the books go along. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/56 "2016-09-14T14:55:10Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Right, Snape is a decent foil for the kids in the first three books, but I didn’t see him as a “wonderful villain” like Prof. Pepperwinkle said. But later posts have said that he gets more interesting as the books go along. That’s very true. Whoever said that young students see their teachers as either nice or mean with no middle ground, but older ones start to see them as people, was right on. He never became my favorite character, but as you (via Harry) learn more about his past he definitely becomes more complex and interesting than the grouchy teacher who hates Gryffindor because he likes Slytherin. I won’t spoil anything, but I will say that starting with _Goblet of Fire_ the overall tone changes drastically. It gets much darker, more violent, and the stakes are higher. To me the first three books are sort of Scooby-Doo-ish, larky and fun with a lot of emphasis on the environment and the “good guys” Harry, Hermione, and the Weasleys. With _GOF_ everyone’s used to Hogwarts so the focus shifts to the “bad guys” who suddenly become human beings with their own agendas and histories, and it probably says something about me that I tend to find the villains of a piece more interesting than the heroes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/57 "2016-09-14T15:17:49Z")
> [@peedin](#): > > I hate fantasy and I hate science fiction but I love Harry Potter. Read them as an adult (and re-read them). I cannot explain why I love the books, but I do. Which is sort of my point in my earlier posts- it’s accessible to people who otherwise don’t like sci-fi or fantasy. At its best, science fiction and fantasy are really a clever way to draw the reader’s attention outside of the normal framework of our reality, and use this unusual setting to reflect our own current reality back at us. The Harry Potter world does this by putting otherwise normal kids in the wizarding world, and pointing up just how normal they are, with the same wants, needs, fears and desires that all kids that age. The movies seem to do it less with the adult characters than the children, but what I got out of the movies was that Harry and co. were normal kids, who happened to be involved in all this magical stuff, not that they were fundamentally different. A lot of more… adult? serious? sci-fi and fantasy literature is some combination of too fantastic too soon, combined with either a lack of emphasis on that reflective aspect, or they’re just too dense for a lot of people, so that they’re kind of grinding through the books wondering about all the technobabble and places and ancient battles, and what-not, and still not knowing a whole lot about the characters until later in the books. So the Harry Potter books avoid that pitfall and do a great job of that reflection to the reader about what it is to be a kid caught up in all that serious stuff. The point isn’t the magic or wizarding world, but Harry and his compatriots. ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/58 "2016-09-14T15:18:47Z")
One thing that helps connect the series to a wide variety of people is that we learn about the rules of the world along with Harry. In a lot fantasy, the hero already lives in a world where magic is real, and various narrative devices have to be employed to teach the reader how everything works while acknowledging that everyone in the world already knows this stuff. When we first see the shops in Diagon Alley, the moving portraits at Hogwarts, and so on, it’s endearing that our hero is also being introduced to all this at the same time. We as a reader don’t feel like some lost idiot in a strange new land, because our hero is as ignorant as us. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/59 "2016-09-14T15:29:21Z")
As to the appeal for adults… I read _Sorcerer’s/Philosopher’s Stone_ a few years after it had come out. I was probably in my mid 20’s, definitely a few years out of college. I picked it up on a whim just to see the what the fuss was all about. For some reason I was hooked. Something about the setting really appealed to me. I liked how it was this whole contemporary magic world that was sort of running parallel to the real world instead of on some faraway imaginary planet where everyone speaks English and fights dragons with medieval European weapons. Also, I liked the the humanity of Harry and the other kids. They argue and goof off instead of doing homework and make friends and lose friends and make mistakes and overall act like a bunch of tweens/teens, instead of miniature adults or perfect paragons of goodness. Harry is a good guy but stubborn, hotheaded, prone to snap judgements, and can be selfish, instead of a standard fantasy hero with a few flaws grafted on for variety. That’s what hooked me. I don’t know how it got to be as huge as it did. If I did, I wouldn’t be here, I’d be diving into a pile of gold coins like Scrooge McDuck. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719/60 "2016-09-14T15:46:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Does Arithmancy teach the kids any muggle world math? It seems to be more numerology or predicting things with math. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think we ever find out much about what Arithmancy consists of. I’d _like_ to think it involves some genuine, substantial mathematics, used for magical purposes (so, no whining “When are we ever going to use this?”). > [@](#): > > It seems that Hogwarts teaches kids how to live in the wizard world, they would be left behind if they wanted to get jobs in the Muggle world. This, I think, is pretty much true. The wizarding world and muggle world are fairly well insulated from one another. Wizards don’t seem to understand muggle matters, though there are some (like Mr. Weasley) who are both fascinated and confused by them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-harry-potter-such-a-huge-phenomenon-open-spoilers/765719.md?page=4)