# Why is health care reform unconstitutional? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 17, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815 "2012-01-17T19:16:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/1 "2012-01-17T19:16:19Z")
I’m far from a legal scholar, so I don’t really understand all of the outcries from the GOP that health care reform is unconstitutional (even though, ironically, the individual mandate was their idea to begin with). I mean, in my mind, being required to have health insurance is no different from being required to buy car insurance, home insurance, sign up for the draft, pay state and income taxes, etc. Still, the Supreme Court is expected to issue its verdict on the law in June, and I figure that there’s probably an equal number of opponents and proponents of the ACA here which’ll facilitate this debate. Why is health care reform unconstitutional? How do you think the Supreme Court will rule on its constitutionality? Do you support or oppose the law? ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/2 "2012-01-17T19:27:24Z")
I doubt health care reform in general can be found unconstitutional, but this particular program has a very unusual mandatory direct purchase method. All other programs are either indirectly paid for through taxes, or are for things that are optional like owning a car. Then there’s the secondary question of whether disallowing the purchase method nixes the whole thing, or if it can be merely extracted. ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/3 "2012-01-17T19:30:53Z")
Regarding car insurance, I’m pretty sure only liability insr. is required. In other words, protection for the other guy if you get into a wreck. I’d say at the core, the problem with healthcare reform, as I understand it, is that it comes across as punishing people just for _living_ and choosing _not_ to participate in something. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/4 "2012-01-17T19:36:11Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > I mean, in my mind, being required to have health insurance is no different from being required to buy car insurance, home insurance, sign up for the draft, pay state and income taxes, etc. The Constitution gives Congress the power to levy taxes. It does not give them the right to compel everyone to buy a product from a private company. And Obama has been insistent that this is not a tax. The Constitution says that whatever powers are not explicitly granted to Congress do not belong to Congress. Whether or not that will be enough to cause the Supreme Court to rule this un-Constitutional, I have no idea. They have violated the text often enough in the past - see [Kelo v. City of New London](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London) for an example. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/5 "2012-01-17T19:38:20Z")
What I never understood is why simply restructuring it all as a tax couldn’t be the alternative solution to repackaging the health care reform. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/6 "2012-01-17T19:43:24Z")
> [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > What I never understood is why simply restructuring it all as a tax couldn’t be the alternative solution to repackaging the health care reform. Because they couldn’t get that by conservatives in Congress, so they had to come up with this weird hybrid solution. I don’t think anyone likes the compromise. I suspect that people either think it should be paid for out of the general fund or not done at all at the Federal level and left to the states. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/7 "2012-01-17T19:51:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The Constitution gives Congress the power to levy taxes. It does not give them the right to compel everyone to buy a product from a private company. And Obama has been insistent that this is not a tax. Suffice it to say that this is not settled law. _Raich_ in particular allowed that Congress may prohibit individuals from growing pot even in states were it is legal. This traces back to _Wickard_ which made a similar ruling respecting wheat. In particular Scalia wrote in a concurring opinion: “As Lopez itself states, and the Court affirms today, Congress may regulate noneconomic intrastate activities only where the failure to do so “could … undercut” its regulation of interstate commerce.” Clearly failing to enact the individual mandate undercuts the regulation of the health-care market. We have had multiple long and detailed threads on this topic - perhaps someone will be kind enough to link to a few for the OP if they have them handy. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/8 "2012-01-17T20:24:19Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > Why is health care reform unconstitutional? There is no # on this Petition for Certiorari, and there seems to be 3 consolidated cases dealing with the severability of parts of the Act, but let’s assume this was granted, this will give an overview of WHY it is deeemed UNconstitutional. As Jas09 mentions Lopez, so does this Petition, internal citation. Congress exceeded it’s authority under the Commerce Clause in enacting the ACT. Lopez was such a case, as most US Criminal laws are passed under authority of the CC. QUESTIONS PRESENTED: 1. Does Congress have authority under the Commerce Clause to require private citizens to purchase and maintain “minimum essential” healthcare insurance coverage under penalty of federal law? 2. Is the individual mandate provision of the Act unconstitutional as applied to Petitioners who are without healthcare insurance? [http://aca-litigation.wikispaces.com/file/view/Petition+for+cert+(07.27.11).pdf](http://aca-litigation.wikispaces.com/file/view/Petition+for+cert+(07.27.11).pdf) Here is another link on the severability cases. [http://www.americanbar.org/publications/preview\_home/11-393.html](http://www.americanbar.org/publications/preview_home/11-393.html) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/9 "2012-01-17T20:36:01Z")
The PPACA does not compel anyone to buy anything. It gives everyone a choice: Buy something, or pay extra money to the federal government. This is perfectly Constitutional: Congress is using a power explicitly granted to it in the Constitution, to fulfill a duty explicitly imposed on it by the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/10 "2012-01-17T21:11:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The PPACA does not compel anyone to buy anything. It gives everyone a choice: Buy something, or pay extra money to the federal government. This is perfectly Constitutional: Congress is using a power explicitly granted to it in the Constitution, to fulfill a duty explicitly imposed on it by the Constitution. That’s similar to saying that my state doesn’t compel me not to rob banks. I can either choose to not rob banks, or rob banks and then spend 25 years in prison. It’s my free choice! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/11 "2012-01-17T21:28:35Z")
Right, and waterboarding doesn’t actually force anyone to talk, so no compulsion is involved. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/12 "2012-01-17T21:36:07Z")
> [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > Regarding car insurance, I’m pretty sure only liability insr. is required. In other words, protection for the other guy if you get into a wreck. > > I’d say at the core, the problem with healthcare reform, as I understand it, is that it comes across as punishing people just for _living_ and choosing _not_ to participate in something. I have health insurance. If you get into a car accident and don’t have health insurance the hospital running my HMO is obligated to admit you. The life saving surgery you’ll get will be paid for by my premiums. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/13 "2012-01-17T21:40:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Right, and waterboarding doesn’t actually force anyone to talk, so no compulsion is involved. > > Regards, > Shodan If you find the idea of taxation to be unacceptable, there is always Somalia. But aside from living in a third world hellhole, you should probably get used to it, they’ve been doing it for a few thousand years now. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/14 "2012-01-17T21:45:33Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > That’s similar to saying that my state doesn’t compel me not to rob banks. I can either choose to not rob banks, or rob banks and then spend 25 years in prison. It’s my free choice! The power of the federal government to influence behavior through taxation has a long history in the States. It basically has an unchecked power to tax in anyway it deems fit. As far as I can tell, there is no reason to think that they can’t tax people who have health insurance differently than those that don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/15 "2012-01-17T22:27:59Z")
Seat belt laws don’t exist solely to save people too stupid to protect themselves, they protect everyone in society who has to contribute to the reconstruction of that moron’s face post-windshield. Either everyone is covered by insurance they make contributions for or we institute a Thunder Dome like healthcare policy where people unable to prove they have insurance must bleed to death at the doors of the emergency ward. Nothing else is fair. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/16 "2012-01-17T22:36:24Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > I mean, in my mind, being required to have health insurance is no different from being required to buy car insurance… The federal government does nor require you to by car insurance. The federal government’s authority is limited. State authority is plenary. You haven’t been around very long, but this has come up in every thread like this since the HCRB has been debated. You might want to search previous threads-- surely you realize this is not a new debate here. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/17 "2012-01-17T22:45:06Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > That’s similar to saying that my state doesn’t compel me not to rob banks. I can either choose to not rob banks, or rob banks and then spend 25 years in prison. It’s my free choice! > [@Shodan](#): > > Right, and waterboarding doesn’t actually force anyone to talk, so no compulsion is involved. > > Regards, > Shodan So the fine is like 25 years in prison or waterboarding? I was under the impression that it was more like $100/month. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/18 "2012-01-17T22:51:31Z")
So you would be OK with the government doing something un-Constitutional providing it only cost you $100 a month? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/19 "2012-01-17T22:57:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you would be OK with the government doing something un-Constitutional providing it only cost you $100 a month? > > Regards, > Shodan People who are much more expert about the subject than you think it is constitutional. So maybe you shouldn’t present it as a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815/20 "2012-01-17T23:33:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The Constitution gives Congress the power to levy taxes. It does not give them the right to compel everyone to buy a product from a private company. And Obama has been insistent that this is not a tax. If it looks like a tax, functions like a tax, and is collected as a tax, what constitutional weight does Obama saying “It’s not a tax” carry? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/609815.md?page=2)