# Why is Heaven Up and other imponderables? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 11, 2010, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-heaven-up-and-other-imponderables/539011 "2010-05-11T04:41:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-heaven-up-and-other-imponderables/539011/21 "2010-05-12T18:29:08Z")
The real problem in answering your questions, is that although all fundies say that no interpretation is required, it’s all literal, there is in fact extensive interpretation going on. There are actually a multitude of groups properly labeled “fundie”, but the only doctrine they all have in common is that it’s literally true. Virtually every fundie group has an idiosyncratic group of beliefs on those questions which will differ from the next group in small or large ways. There are fundie groups which (for example) don’t even believe in “the rapture”. The only way anyone can predict what _your_ fundie would say is by asking _your_ fundie, or maybe another member of his particular congregation. I started reading your list of questions, with the hope of being able to come up with answers, and on every one I read, I am aware of at least 2 different (and mutually contradictory) answers that some fundie group or other holds. Just as an example using the rapture, some (very small number of) fundies solve the problem of going “up” during the rapture vs a round earth, by _ **denying** _ that the earth is round. It’s flat, problem solved. Obviously, there are very few “flat earthers” around, so other fundie groups have to come up with a different answer. They don’t all come up with the same answer, either. It is impossible to predict in advance what _your_ fundie believes. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-heaven-up-and-other-imponderables/539011/22 "2010-05-12T18:39:25Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > The real problem in answering your questions, is that although all fundies say that no interpretation is required, it’s all literal, there is in fact extensive interpretation going on. There are actually a multitude of groups properly labeled “fundie”, but the only doctrine they all have in common is that it’s literally true. Virtually every fundie group has an idiosyncratic group of beliefs on those questions which will differ from the next group in small or large ways. There are fundie groups which (for example) don’t even believe in “the rapture”. The only way anyone can predict what _your_ fundie would say is by asking _your_ fundie, or maybe another member of his particular congregation. > > I started reading your list of questions, with the hope of being able to come up with answers, and on every one I read, I am aware of at least 2 different (and mutually contradictory) answers that some fundie group or other holds. Just as an example using the rapture, some (very small number of) fundies solve the problem of going “up” during the rapture vs a round earth, by _ **denying** _ that the earth is round. It’s flat, problem solved. Obviously, there are very few “flat earthers” around, so other fundie groups have to come up with a different answer. They don’t all come up with the same answer, either. It is impossible to predict in advance what _your_ fundie believes. I would love a link to Flat Earth Rapture believers! Of course there are multiple interpretations, part of the point of this and other exercises and dialectics with him (such as they are) is to have him realize that. And failing that, to come away with “Comedy Gold” for myself. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-heaven-up-and-other-imponderables/539011/23 "2010-05-12T18:59:23Z")
Re: heaven is up. If you are without a soul (i.e. dead) then your body falls to the ground. Therefore the soul is always straining to go upwards… ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-heaven-up-and-other-imponderables/539011/24 "2010-05-12T22:52:05Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > I would love a link to Flat Earth Rapture believers! I’d love to give you one, but I don’t have one. I actually talked to one, once. I imagine googling “flat earth” would be a good start. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-heaven-up-and-other-imponderables/539011/25 "2010-05-13T00:14:19Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Weren’t there plenty of relgions, pagan and otherwise that thought that goodness came from the Earth? You know, food, water, shelter, sustenance, all of those good things? True enough, but there’s a difference between the visible ground underfoot (soil, bounty of the earth, crops, fertility, etc…) and the actual underground (caves, burials, worms, blind fish, etc…) There’s also the whole light vs. darkness thing. Animals that “hide” from the light tend to be icky (again, worms, the creepy-crawlies that hide beneath rocks, rats beneath the floorboards, things washed up from the ocean’s depth, snakes…) while avians tend to have positive connotations (the noble eagle, the wise owl, etc…) Of course, you’ll find counter examples for any of those in this culture or that one. For example, to Native Americans, Snake was a symbol of wisdom. Still. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-heaven-up-and-other-imponderables/539011/26 "2010-05-13T07:15:36Z")
Everything you ever wanted to know about psycho-fundies, straight from the horse’s mouth at [jesus-is-lord.com](http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/). I don’t see any flat earthers there… will geocentrists do ya? ---
**Author:** ![SGT42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@SGT42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SGT42)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-heaven-up-and-other-imponderables/539011/27 "2010-05-13T13:46:51Z")
Instead of appealing to the Rapture, that is not mentioned in the Bible, why don’t you ask him if he believes the snake talked Eve to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge and because of this God condemned the snake to go over its belly. If he says he believes this, ask him how he thinks an animal, without vocal cords and with a thin tongue, could speak. And how does he think the snake moved before being condemned to crawl. Did it equilibrate on its tail, or did it bit the tail and roll, like the one in the cartoon. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-heaven-up-and-other-imponderables/539011/28 "2010-05-13T22:11:14Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > Everything you ever wanted to know about psycho-fundies, straight from the horse’s mouth at [jesus-is-lord.com](http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/). I don’t see any flat earthers there… will geocentrists do ya? No, not at all! Geocentrism is wimping out, logically. It _ **must** _ be “Flat Earth”. That’s what the OP asked me, and that’s what the nutjob I talked to believed. Nothing less than the “Pure Word of God” [AKA “flat earth” doctrine] will be sufficient. You _ **missed** _, which demonstrates that you’re _ **obviously** _ a _ **minion of SATAN!!!** _ Sorry, but that’s their argument. You _ **lose, Satan’s minion!** _ ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-heaven-up-and-other-imponderables/539011/29 "2010-05-13T23:54:13Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > No, not at all! Geocentrism is wimping out, logically. It _ **must** _ be “Flat Earth”. That’s what the OP asked me, and that’s what the nutjob I talked to believed. Nothing less than the “Pure Word of God” [AKA “flat earth” doctrine] will be sufficient. You _ **missed** _, which demonstrates that you’re _ **obviously** _ a _ **minion of SATAN!!!** _ > > Sorry, but that’s their argument. You _ **lose, Satan’s minion!** _ Well… **Satan** did [offer me a dollar](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=22165) once. He weaseled. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-heaven-up-and-other-imponderables/539011.md?page=1)