# Why is homicide not generally treated as a mental issue but suicide is? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-homicide-not-generally-treated-as-a-mental-issue-but-suicide-is/851063 "2020-04-04T16:06:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-homicide-not-generally-treated-as-a-mental-issue-but-suicide-is/851063/21 "2020-04-09T00:57:58Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > One might even note that, in modern day, we _still_ differentiate between murder and killing. But, like I say, we do a similar thing with deliberate death: Self-sacrifice, martyrdom, “giving your life”. If I go into a nuclear power plant to shut it down, knowing I will receive a fatal dose of radiation in the process, no-one would call that “suicide”. Because saving lives is considered a legit reason to kill yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-homicide-not-generally-treated-as-a-mental-issue-but-suicide-is/851063/22 "2020-04-09T01:09:54Z")
One thing I forgot to say regarding culture is also the extent to which this is specific to American culture. In US culture prison is still largely considered to be about _punishment_. The bad guys need to have bad experiences, and maybe that will make them feel sorry or change their ways. It feels wrong to punish someone for a mental issue they may not be responsible for, so to many Americans they like to put evil in a special “free will” bracket, separate from the brain, and therefore there’s no issue with punishing evil. Other countries might consider prison as just serving the other three purposes: reforming (which may involve treating the prisoner _well_), deterrence and keeping the public safe. In such countries they are often more willing to consider crimes like murder as being the result of mental illness, even if that illness is not something we have the neuro smarts right now to actually pinpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-homicide-not-generally-treated-as-a-mental-issue-but-suicide-is/851063/23 "2020-04-10T02:49:55Z")
> [@aaronhernandez](#): > > Is it simply cultural norms dictating what constitutes a mental illness? I wonder why wanting to kill yourself signifies a mental disorder and that person isn’t capable of rational decision making but wanting to kill others is considered a moral issue rather than a mental one. > > My guess is that there’s a stigma with mental health and sympathy. Most mental illnesses get less sympathy than physical ones but a mentally ill person who is a killer would garner little to none from most people. The idea of retribution is deeply embeded in the minds of people and many don’t like to consider a killer as being driven by mental illness because they think it’s being too soft on them. It’s only in the last 5 years (???) that countries like Singapore and India have decriminalized attempted suicide. The USA did so much earlier. A significant part of the argument was the observation that decriminalization did not increase the rate of attempted suicide. That same argument applies to murder, but in the USA, most people are convinced that the criminalization of murder decreases the number of murders that would be committed. The difference in the treatment of suicide and murder is not simply a cultural norm about what constitutes a mental illness. It is mostly a cultural norm about what constitutes sin and crime. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-homicide-not-generally-treated-as-a-mental-issue-but-suicide-is/851063/24 "2020-04-10T15:08:06Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > It’s only in the last 5 years (???) that countries like Singapore and India have decriminalized attempted suicide. The USA did so much earlier. A significant part of the argument was the observation that decriminalization did not increase the rate of attempted suicide. > > That same argument applies to murder, but in the USA, most people are convinced that the criminalization of murder decreases the number of murders that would be committed. “In the USA”??? I pretty sure most countries still criminalize murder. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-homicide-not-generally-treated-as-a-mental-issue-but-suicide-is/851063/25 "2020-04-10T21:23:37Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > “In the USA”??? I pretty sure most countries still criminalize murder. The OP assumptions about cultural norms made it clear that the question was about the USA. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-homicide-not-generally-treated-as-a-mental-issue-but-suicide-is/851063/26 "2020-04-11T01:41:36Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > The OP assumptions about cultural norms made it clear that the question was about the USA. Well, yes, but it just sounds kind of odd to put it like that. “Those wacky Americans, criminalizing murder! So puritanical!” ---
**Author:** ![rosecoloredboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@rosecoloredboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rosecoloredboy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-homicide-not-generally-treated-as-a-mental-issue-but-suicide-is/851063/27 "2020-04-13T02:14:10Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Not all killers are “insane”, but insanity and diminished responsibility or mental illness are, in fact, recognized defenses against the charge of murder, depending on the jurisdiction. But, certainly, merely being a psychopath does not automatically imply you are not capable of intentionally committing crimes. But if a person is incapable of feeling empathy for others, isn’t it fair to say something is wrong with them? If their brain was wired to feel empathy, it would actually make the act of murder worse morally IMO. I think psychopathy in a sense is sort of an “excuse”. Not that those people shouldn’t be locked up, but it’s hard to deny that if they weren’t psychopaths they probably would make better choices. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-homicide-not-generally-treated-as-a-mental-issue-but-suicide-is/851063.md?page=1)