But I think the whole point is that Gazelles wouldn’t be doing any measuring.
They would be running and grazing rather than figuring out a better way to escape lions. What stops them from being able to figure out how to build a brick house and keep the lions out? What stops them from figuring out how to cultivate whatever it is they eat so that they will have it aplenty?
I personally think that there was some mutation that allowed for extra hard drive space upstairs, paired with things like opposable thumbs (really good tools) and it’s been a spiraling intelligence cycle since.
And since when can chimps and Gorillas live independently in the jungle completely without human aid? cite? prepostorous I say.
One theory is that we killed off all the other intelligent species, such as the already-mentioned Neanderthals.
And I agree with what has been said already regarding wolves. Wolves are already pretty good at what they do. Without opposable thumbs, I don’t see how a super-intelligent wolf is going to have much of an advantage.
Animals certainly are capable of emotional complexity as well. All pet owners know their pets are able to exhibit a wide range of emotions. Kamunaik the lioness is certainly an interesting case. So far, she has adopted seven baby antelopes.
I would disagree with anyone that says animals do not have a language. Not all do of course, but many have very specific sounds they make for certain things. Blue jays have a very specific “word” for cat, and another for snake. Crows are also very social and have a fairly complex language. Just because we cannot understand what they are saying sometimes does not mean that they don’t understand each other. I’ve always thought it arrogant and a sign of our lack of intelligence that we cannot aknowledge other species as “aware” like we are.
Second what Futile says. We are basically more intelligent because we define “intelligent” as being good at things we think are signs of “intelligence”.
An “objective” form of intelligence is theoretically quantifiable: the ability to learn things. But, and this is the big but, we would have to KNOW, of all of the classes of “things” there are for us to learn!
There could be entire classes of knowledge that humans are not even AWARE of, and which animals may be excelling us at.
The only thing we know is that we are smarter at nearly all of the fields of knowledge we can classify (exceptions, such as sperm whale songs, are rare.)
Yes, the thumbs are vital, but they came a long time ago -well-before Australopithecus afarensis who had chimp-size crania.
The mutation you seek was probably in the vocal chords - Broca’s and Wienickes areas of the brain, then selected for by competitive breeding.
heh heh
I meant that although anthropoid apes may have the language skills of a human toddler, they are competent, mature adult creature, much better at hunting and gathering than most humans.
Interesting fact: if you don’t expose a child to language, or teach it any of the accumulated cultural knowledge that human civilization has amassed, that human child is pretty darn stupid: incapable of most of the important conceptualization tasks that make our intelligence so intelligent, unable to learn much more language than signing chimps, and using that language like chimps: i.e. mostly for singular expression of feeling or want. And they are “emotionally shallow.” And this lack is permanent: without the appropriate stimulation during childhood, the brain simply never grows the connections and structures it requires.
So it seems that intelligent is a matter not only of having human capacity to learn, but of what is actually learned. Take away thousands of years of human cultural and technological advancement, and we’re pretty much back to being grunting cave men.
We may be at the top o’ the heap in one sense, but we’re also the only creature capable of destroying the world. As it is, we’ve made quite a mess of it, in more ways than one. Should mankind be proud of what it has wrought here on Earth?
The one thing that really seperates humans from all other animals is our ability to walk upright. With our hands perpetually free to use tools and weapons, even while on the run, our brains expanded in size considerably. The big brain means that babies have to be born earlier just so their heads can fit through the birth canal. Early births means helpless babies with very few hard-wired instincts, which means a strong social structure is necessary for survival. Strong social structure in turn means developed language, which means sharing of ideas, which means advanced tool use and construction, and so on and so forth.
Correct. Standing upright statred the ball rolling- but the Australopiths were standing upright, 3 Mega years ago.
As you say, this led to tool use and the runaway intelligence/language syndrome.
Not sure exactly what this is intended to mean, but there is considerable debate over the speech ability of Neandertals. And no tape recordings are known to survive.
I think the better question than the one in the OP is: Why are we different? Intelligence, Inshmeligence, why do you we have hobbies? Why do we wear clothes? At what point did we start standing out from the rest of the animal kingdom and why did this happen?
This is a much better question IMO. Intelligence is something that cannot be observed and quantified objectively. But we can definitively say that our race exhibits countless qulaities that the animals don’t have and aren’t capable of exhibiting.
And this cannot be explained with science.
But since we can converse about intelligence, it makes for a better thread, so carry on people…
This is a good question and those who pointed to Neanderthals are, I think, on the right track. An even better example might be Homo erectus, who existed in parts of southern Asia almost as long as the Neanderthals did in Europe. While impossible to prove at this point, I believe that Erectus would fit pretty neatly into a half-way point between chimps and humans on the intelligence scale. From what we can tell, the Austalopithicines were pretty much just upright apes, with not much more intelligence.
As for the chimp/bonobo language abillities, one researcher noted that they do seem to be able grasp certain concepts (i.e., that “chair” has a universal meaning, and not the specific “chair” that the trainer taught it to call “chair”), but when it comes down to it they don’t seem to have much more to say other than “hurry food give hurry”. Of course, maybe they know something we don’t…
No, you prove to me why we are the only race of animals that exhibit these characteristics. Try it, I dare ya. Tell me why we are the only race of animals that builds skyscrapers and gets haircuts. Why don’t monkeys design SUV’s and drive them because they can haul their kids to soccer practice. Why don’t dolphins try to enjoy their lives more by participating in a vast array of activities and hobbies like us? Why do we have thumbs and not the other millions of races of animals?
I think you understand where I am coming from. Forget all the examples I said and just tell me why are we different, will ya? :rolleyes:
What caused you one to wonder if monkeys know things we don’t? Was it a creative and curious thought in your mind or was it because you observed something that prompted you to wonder?
Ultrafilter, This is what I am asking for. Scientific proof for why only one race of animals walks upright. And not just why it happened specifically, but why only one race, why not a couple races? Who/what chose to let one race rule the earth? Science cannot answer this. The closest thing to an “answer” out there (if you consider it an answer) is religion.
