# Why is ignorance of age not an excuse? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 7, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677 "2010-05-07T20:44:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/1 "2010-05-07T20:44:43Z")
I was reading the thread here about [Lawrence Taylor’s arrest](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=562219&page=2) and someone said that his ignorance of the girls age would not prevent charges against him. If I have consensual sex with someone that looks and acts like a 21 year old and has fake ID to prove it but is really, say, 17, why would I be in legal trouble? If I genuinely believed her to be 21 and had no way of knowing otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/2 "2010-05-07T20:51:42Z")
I’ve often wondered about this. Especially if the girl is a prostitute or at least a casual date, how many men would bother to ask for two pieces of photo ID? ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/3 "2010-05-07T20:53:07Z")
Yeah! And along those same lines, why can the police ticket you for speeding if your car’s speedometer is broken? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/4 "2010-05-07T20:56:44Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > Yeah! And along those same lines, why can the police ticket you for speeding if your car’s speedometer is broken? > :rolleyes: In my state, this is at least an affirmative defense. If you can prove it, the judge will throw the ticket out, and issue a malfunctioning equipment ticket. Doesn’t quite work that way with statutory rape. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/5 "2010-05-07T20:57:54Z")
it’s a symptom of the larger problem of anarcho-tyranny in our society [Sam Francis (writer) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_T._Francis#Anarcho-tyranny) . Are you trying to imply here that the justice system cares about “justice” or something? ---
**Author:** ![pope\_hentai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@pope\_hentai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pope_hentai)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/6 "2010-05-07T21:00:51Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > Yeah! And along those same lines, why can the police ticket you for speeding if your car’s speedometer is broken? > :rolleyes: but those aren’t along the same lines. one is an active lie that can do irreparable damage, and the other is broken equipment that can be easily fixed. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/7 "2010-05-07T21:01:25Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > Yeah! And along those same lines, why can the police ticket you for speeding if your car’s speedometer is broken? > :rolleyes: Because it’s your responsibility to drive a car with a working speedometer. How is it your responsibility to verify the age of the person you’re having casual sex with? “Responsible” sex usually entails treating the other person kindly and using protection. It shouldn’t entail getting a background check. ---
**Author:** ![Campion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@Campion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Campion)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/8 "2010-05-07T21:02:58Z")
The reason is an issue of public policy. We have determined, as a society, that we should protect our children. We have written statutes making it a crime to have sex under certain circumstances (hence, “statutory” rape). Because it is per se illegal to have sex with a child, it is no defense that you didn’t know he/she was underage. Caveat emptor, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/9 "2010-05-07T21:05:31Z")
Also, the claim is made that a person who knew perfectly well what the kid’s age was could claim ignorance to get out of the charge. That’s the claim that is made. I don’t say it is necessarily a good claim. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/10 "2010-05-07T21:10:54Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I’ve often wondered about this. Especially if the girl is a prostitute or at least a casual date, how many men would bother to ask for two pieces of photo ID? Would that defence even work in court? Despite 9/11 and REAL ID fake IDs (particulary driver’s licences) are ridiculously easy to get; ask any college/high school student. Of course it’s also possible to obtain a real, govt issued ID, fradualently. I know people who did just that. Traci Lords even managed to convince the US Department of State that she was of legal age. I don’t know if any of her costars were charged with statutory rape, but the agents and film producers were charged with child pornography. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/11 "2010-05-07T21:19:51Z")
> [@Campion](#): > > The reason is an issue of public policy. We have determined, as a society, that we should protect our children. We have written statutes making it a crime to have sex under certain circumstances (hence, “statutory” rape). Because it is per se illegal to have sex with a child, it is no defense that you didn’t know he/she was underage. Caveat emptor, as it were. Which just means that public policy is immoral. Unfortunately, as much as people cry about this, no one seems to actually want to do anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/12 "2010-05-07T21:33:56Z")
Sorry for my flippancy. I just have trouble dredging up a lot of sympathy for this sort of thing. If I don’t know a girl well enough to know how old she is, I don’t know her well enough to have sex with her, IMO. (And really, worried about asking for ID from a prostitute? As if having sex with a prostitute is perfectly legal as long as she’s old enough …) Statutory rape as a strict liability offense is our society’s way of putting responsibility for protecting children on every adult. It’s really easy to avoid statutory rape charges–don’t have sex with minors. If you’re not positive she’s over the age of consent in your jurisdiction, then just walk away. Real easy. This kind of charge isn’t something innocent people get caught up in. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/13 "2010-05-07T21:41:17Z")
I see statutory rape laws as well intended, but impractical in real life. Oftentimes society has to decide on which side they stand on a nebulous issue. On this one, I stand with the accused. Some kids just look older so it should be a defense that the perp didn’t know the prostitute’s age. Hell, if the kids in these scenarios are lying about it, then they are already damaged and there’s no need to overprotect them in order to protect kids in general ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/14 "2010-05-07T21:43:47Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > Statutory rape as a strict liability offense is our society’s way of putting responsibility for protecting children on every adult. It’s really easy to avoid statutory rape charges–don’t have sex with minors. If you’re not positive she’s over the age of consent in your jurisdiction, then just walk away. Real easy. This kind of charge isn’t something innocent people get caught up in. It does sort of make hash of due process, though… ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/15 "2010-05-07T21:44:04Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > If I don’t know a girl well enough to know how old she is, I don’t know her well enough to have sex with her, IMO. I eagerly await your providing notorized birth certificates for every woman you’ve ever slept with. > [@](#): > > If you’re not positive she’s over the age of consent in your jurisdiction, then just walk away. Real easy. This kind of charge isn’t something innocent people get caught up in. Ah, but the scenario posited by the OP is a woman who looks to be 21 \*and \*has an ID to “prove” it. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/16 "2010-05-07T21:57:07Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > Sorry for my flippancy. I just have trouble dredging up a lot of sympathy for this sort of thing. If I don’t know a girl well enough to know how old she is, I don’t know her well enough to have sex with her, IMO. (And really, worried about asking for ID from a prostitute? As if having sex with a prostitute is perfectly legal as long as she’s old enough …) I haven’t decided which side I want to weigh in on in this argument yet but I want to respond to this. First of all, there is no arbitrary point where you suddenly know someone well enough to have sex. If two people who just met want to fuck, more power to them. Second of all, prostitution _shouldn’t_ be illegal. It’s not morally comparable to having sex with a minor. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/17 "2010-05-07T22:17:20Z")
> [@Campion](#): > > The reason is an issue of public policy. We have determined, as a society, that we should protect our children. We have written statutes making it a crime to have sex under certain circumstances (hence, “statutory” rape). Because it is per se illegal to have sex with a child, it is no defense that you didn’t know he/she was underage. Caveat emptor, as it were. Whether or not you agree it’s “just”, **Campion** ’s post contains the legal logic underlying the issue. _Caveat fornicator_, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/18 "2010-05-07T22:27:49Z")
This concept bothers me. Assume I’m at a bar and a younger looking woman starts chatting me up. I know she’s been carded once to get in and at least one other person thinks she looks old enough to be 21. While talking to her she gives no indication of being in high school. How am I supposed to verify her age? This whole concept seems to make sense in theory but in practice is impossible. I went to college with girls that could pass for high schoolers when they were seniors and now that I’m in my late 20s most of the college kids look young to me so that isn’t a reliable reference to how old someone is. On the other hand I could see how the law would seek to prevent someone from claiming ignorance to the age of a girl they pick up from school after cheerleading practice. I guess jury nullification is the only hope. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/19 "2010-05-07T23:17:27Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > This concept bothers me. Assume I’m at a bar and a younger looking woman starts chatting me up. I know she’s been carded once to get in and at least one other person thinks she looks old enough to be 21. While talking to her she gives no indication of being in high school. How am I supposed to verify her age?.. I think that happened on an episode of Law & Order:SVU. A man was being charged with statutory rape of a 16 who he met in a bar. She was the _bartender_ and used a fake ID to get the job. It turned out that she was actually in her 20s and enrolled in high school under a fake identity; the “fake ID” that showed she was over 21 was in fact her real ID. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/20 "2010-05-07T23:19:37Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > This concept bothers me. Assume I’m at a bar and a younger looking woman starts chatting me up. I know she’s been carded once to get in and at least one other person thinks she looks old enough to be 21. While talking to her she gives no indication of being in high school. How am I supposed to verify her age? Ditto. I work in a casino and there are TONS of people whose age I could not guess offhand. Perhaps if everyone had some sort of infallible age-identifying device, perhaps on the hand? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677.md?page=2)