# Why is ignorance of age not an excuse? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 7, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677 "2010-05-07T20:44:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/561 "2010-05-20T21:42:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That wasn’t my question. My question was whether you think it’s plausible that an 11 year old could convince an adult male that she was also an adult and “seduce” him into having sex with her withjout ever having a clue that she was a pre-teen. > > Do you think this is a scenario that could actually happen in real life, yes or no? I’ve seen no evidence against it, even if I have no reason to believe it’s particularly likely. Meanwhile? I’m done with this thread. You seem to think your base assertions are unchallengable, but others are subject to you calling bullshit. If you don’t have a cite, I’m simply ignoring any assertion you make from now on. It’ll make these conversations much more manageable, because you very rarely have a cite. > [@](#): > > No, both are unquestionably true. You’re wrong. > > You need to learn the difference between facts and assertions. **Dain Bread** made an assertion which I called bullshit on. This right here, juxtaposed, is the funniest thing I’ve heard all day. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/562 "2010-05-20T21:42:54Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > But what if you did look and you did think your mother-in-law was a burglar? But you didn’t look. If you don’t know the age of the pesron you’re sleeping with, you didn’t look. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/563 "2010-05-20T21:45:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > But you didn’t look. If you don’t know the age of the pesron you’re sleeping with, you didn’t look. Unprovable assertion. Inadmissible by your own statements. “You really need to learn the difference between facts and assertions.” as some guy on the internet once said to me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/564 "2010-05-20T21:45:44Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > But it does happen. No it doesn’t. Not enough to matter, anyway. Really, not at all. > [@](#): > > How many times does a 20 year old man have to go to jail for having sex with a 17 year old girl before it makes sense to do something about it? Should he simply have to rely on jury nullification. We already have Romeo and Juliet laws. This is not something that happens, and when it does, I don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/565 "2010-05-20T21:46:48Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Unprovable assertion. Inadmissible by your own statements. This makes no sense. If you didn’t know the age, then how can you say you verified it? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/566 "2010-05-20T21:47:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No it doesn’t. Not enough to matter, anyway. Really, not at all. > … > This is not something that happens Unprovable assertion. Inadmissible by your own statements. “You really need to learn the difference between facts and assertions.” as some guy on the internet once said to me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/567 "2010-05-20T21:48:52Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Yes, it is. It’s a legal document. An easily faked one. Put it this way, would you be willing to bet every dime you had that everyone drinking in a crowded club is drinking with a legal and valid ID? If you wouldn’t bet your money on it, then why would you bet your freedom on it? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/568 "2010-05-20T21:49:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s not an arbitrary line. It’s a biological fact that the areas of the human brain responsible for judgement, controlling impulsivity and understanding consequences are not fully mature until the age of 21 or 22. Chit, if you had boys instead of girls you would know that the areas of the human brain that are responsible for judgment, controlling impulsivity and understanding consequences may not mature way past the 22nd birthday. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/569 "2010-05-20T21:50:16Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Unprovable assertion. Inadmissible by your own statements. It’s your assertion, not mine. You are asserting that 20 year olds go to jail for sleeping with 17 year olds. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/570 "2010-05-20T21:50:55Z")
The really sad thing is, in many other threads **DtC** is a fountain of reasoned opinions and reliable information. He’s _awesome_ in bible threads. I wonder what my hot buttons are? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/571 "2010-05-20T21:51:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Chit, if you had boys instead of girls you would know that the areas of the human brain that are responsible for judgment, controlling impulsivity and understanding consequences may not mature way past the 22nd birthday. For me it was like 35. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/572 "2010-05-20T21:51:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s your assertion, not mine. You are asserting that 20 year olds go to jail for sleeping with 17 year olds. Cite? I asserted no such thing, you are confusing me with **Damuri**. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/573 "2010-05-20T21:51:48Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > This expression has been used before and it’s sort of creepy. Going to a bar illegally (which I often did, sans fake ID, about ten years before I ever came close to sex) is not the same thing as having sex. And you don’t get to enforce laws based on how ‘damaged’ or far gone you think the victim is. Even if they’re prostitutes who have sex every day and yet, by some miracle, can still be violated (which, I suspect, these laws are often in place for, as most prostitutes start as minors). Prostitution is not a defense to rape but a lot of states make it real difficult to convict anyone that has raped a prostitute. Its one of those things. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/574 "2010-05-20T21:52:51Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > The really sad thing is, in many other threads **DtC** is a fountain of reasoned opinions and reliable information. He’s _awesome_ in bible threads. > > I wonder what my hot buttons are? This is almost always the first thing I say–it’s only a few subjects (mostly gender-issue and sex related) that he gets this way about. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/575 "2010-05-20T21:52:52Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I asserted no such thing, you are confusing me with **Damuri**. My bad. Still not my burden of proof, though. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/576 "2010-05-20T21:53:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Since statutory rape is a crime of strict liability, _mens rea_ is irrelevant. If it’s an accident, it’s a crime of negligence. I think the popint is that 10 years for something without mens rea seems a bit harsh. I mean there are even affirmative defenses to murder, why not statutory rape? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/577 "2010-05-20T21:53:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > For me it was like 35. So the argument is “children under 18 aren’t competent for their actions, and thus can’t be held legally responsible for the deception and resultant sex (because that would take the responsibility from the defendent).” And “people under 35 aren’t competent for their actions, thus…” ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_Fevah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Dante\_Fevah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_Fevah)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/578 "2010-05-20T21:55:15Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > I was reading the thread here about [Lawrence Taylor’s arrest](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=562219&page=2) and someone said that his ignorance of the girls age would not prevent charges against him. If I have consensual sex with someone that looks and acts like a 21 year old and has fake ID to prove it but is really, say, 17, why would I be in legal trouble? If I genuinely believed her to be 21 and had no way of knowing otherwise? A better question would be to ask why the laws were written that way. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/579 "2010-05-20T21:55:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You mentioned Romeo and Juliet exceptions which already exist, and which I don’t have a problem with. Why is the damage to a child (which seems to be the basis for punishing the statuory rapist who had no idea he was having sex with a child) any less when they have sex with another child than if they have sex with a young adult? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/580 "2010-05-20T21:57:48Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > So the argument is “children under 18 aren’t competent for their actions, and thus can’t be held legally responsible for the deception and resultant sex (because that would take the responsibility from the defendent).” > > And “people under 35 aren’t competent for their actions, thus…” I’m beginning to get the distinct impression that \*\*Dio \*\*cannot deal rationally with any situation in which he can imagine one of his daughters. He’s come close to admitting that a few times. This and a few other statements he has made make this whole thread seem like the age-old cliche of “I am afraid of my girls meeting boys like I used to be”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677.md?page=30)