# Why is ignorance of age not an excuse? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 7, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677 "2010-05-07T20:44:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/601 "2010-05-20T22:29:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You knew there was a chance. It was an assumed risk. I gotta tell you that sounds pretty harsh for something that is not normally an illegal activity. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/602 "2010-05-20T22:31:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If I see myself at the door, I’m going to kick my own ass. > > My ten year old started getting a chest a few months ago, and just last week I had to pick her up early from school because she was getting cramps. > > That means I’m going to have to buy a gun now (once I convince my wife to let me have one in the house). This explains it even more. The most protective dads were the worst alley cats when they were young. Some people call it Karma when a “playa” has a daughter. When you have a son, you have to worry about one penis, when you have a daughter you have to worry about all of them. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/603 "2010-05-20T22:35:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If I see myself at the door, I’m going to kick my own ass. > > My ten year old started getting a chest a few months ago, and just last week I had to pick her up early from school because she was getting cramps. > > That means I’m going to have to buy a gun now (once I convince my wife to let me have one in the house). What’s wrong with you? ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_Fevah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Dante\_Fevah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_Fevah)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/604 "2010-05-20T22:35:12Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > > [@Dante\_Fevah](#): > > > > Do you think having anonymous sex with young looking strangers is healthy for all concerned? > > No, but just because something isn’t healthy doesn’t mean people should be arrested and put in jail for it. I didn’t say that. But since there are laws against sex with minors and it is mostly generally agreed that ‘ignorance of the law is no defense’ I think most of the arguments here are odd. There are societies and cultures where having sex with very young people is accepted. We just don’t happen to live in one. It’s not an issue for me as I am not sexually attracted to youth. It is eye candy, and eye candy is just that – pretty to look at. But there are those who see youth as sexual objects. They sexually objectify youth. Not healthy for either or for society. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/605 "2010-05-20T22:41:24Z")
> [@Dante\_Fevah](#): > > I didn’t say that. But since there are laws against sex with minors and it is mostly generally agreed that ‘ignorance of the law is no defense’ I think most of the arguments here are odd. Ignorance of the law is no defense, but ignorance of the act generally _is_ - you may not get off scot free, but it’s generally a lesser charge, with ‘negligence’ in the name somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![glilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/48db29/32.png) [@glilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glilly)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/606 "2010-05-20T23:03:05Z")
If forms of identification (licenses, birth certificates) are unreliable as evidence for someone trying to determine legal age of a girlfriend/boyfriend, how would prosecutors be able to prove the age of the victim? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/607 "2010-05-20T23:04:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If I see myself at the door, I’m going to kick my own ass. > > My ten year old started getting a chest a few months ago, and just last week I had to pick her up early from school because she was getting cramps. > > That means I’m going to have to buy a gun now (once I convince my wife to let me have one in the house). While your position is no less infuriating, it’s at least understandable under these circumstances–hell, my kid is still theoretical and god help the dude who fucks with my sister-in-law (I do have guns :p). I understand your depth of feeling here, but that doesn’t make it sound basis for public policy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/608 "2010-05-21T01:56:16Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > No he is just saying that they are assuming the risk of damaging a minor by having sex with them (whether you knew it or not, you knew it was possible) so if you did cause that damage you go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200. It sounds like Dio feels teh damage is so great that it is not worth reducign any deterrent effect by introducing defenses. I think the _potential_ for damage is great enough that there needs to be a bright line law without wiggle room. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/609 "2010-05-21T01:59:34Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > What’s wrong with you? I was joking about the gun, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/610 "2010-05-21T02:01:56Z")
> [@glilly](#): > > If forms of identification (licenses, birth certificates) are unreliable as evidence for someone trying to determine legal age of a girlfriend/boyfriend, how would prosecutors be able to prove the age of the victim? I didn’t say all forms of identification were unreliable, just ID cards in bars. Like I said before, how many people here would be willing to bet their houses that every single person in a crowded bar is using a legit ID? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/611 "2010-05-21T02:44:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I was joking about the gun, dude. I know. Thus, my question. I’m an 870 man, myself. :o ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/612 "2010-05-21T12:36:32Z")
never mind ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/613 "2010-05-21T13:16:05Z")
> [@glilly](#): > > If forms of identification (licenses, birth certificates) are unreliable as evidence for someone trying to determine legal age of a girlfriend/boyfriend, how would prosecutors be able to prove the age of the victim? They’d have to get to know them for a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/614 "2010-05-21T13:50:33Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > They’d have to get to know them for a few years. Or they’d know instantly that there’s no way they could be an adult based on how many times they say “and it was like, NO WAY and I was like well YEAH and she was like OMG!” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/615 "2010-05-21T15:01:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No it isn’t. Just because some X’s can look like Y’s, doesn’t mean that Y’s can look like X’s. Obviously, if even one case exists that could be taken for either X or Y, then it is possible to mistake either an X for a Y or a Y for an X. This is Logic 101. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/616 "2010-05-21T15:04:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s a far FAR more common occurance for adult males to fuck teenaged girls, and even knock them up, but nobody thinks twice. I’d like a cite for that disgusting assertion that “nobody thinks twice” about “adult males [fucking] teenaged girls.” > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is an irrelevant point. The fact that adults can seem immature is not converse evidence that an 11 year old can be convincing as an adult. It can’t happen. It _doesn’t_ happen. It \*can \*happen, and it \*has \*happened, and you’re \*rejecting \*the evidence because it’s not what you want to hear. You’re the creationist who’s insisting that god put dinosaur bones in the ground to test us. That’s what you are. Right here. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If you stick your dick in something without knowing what it is, you know you might be fucking a child and you are assuming the risk. You are firing a gun into a dark room. Fucking someone who might be underaged is a negligent choice and you are liable if you guess and guess wrong. 1.) FUCKING STOP IT RIGHT NOW. STOP MAKING IT ALL ABOUT MEN HAVING SEX WITH UNDERAGE FEMALES. I am god damned _serious_. 2.) No, you are firing at a \*target \*that is clearly a _target_, that later turns out to have something else concealed inside. > [@begbert2](#): > > If you believe that 11 year olds can’t convincingly act 18, then you logically can’t see this defense as a loophole. It’s impossible, unless you literally have no understanding of the jury system, or unless **you have abandoned logical thought altogether on the subject**. I bolded the bit that’s right. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You play World of Warcraft in a raiding guild as a tank. It was weeks before I realized you were a gurrl. I’m crazy like that. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I can’t see a reason to allow a defendant to argue something that’s impossible. You’re the only person here who thinks it’s impossible instead of simply unlikely. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > And no, an ID card is not enough to provide reasonable cover. I await evidence that you have destroyed and will never seek a replacement for both your own driver’s license or state ID and your wife’s. Since, you know, they’re meaningless and all. > [@Dante\_Fevah](#): > > If you know who you are having sex with, there should be no problem. Do you think having anonymous sex with young looking strangers is healthy for all concerned? I think it’s not illegal and you can keep your nose out of everyone else’s bedrooms, hotel rooms, bar bathrooms, and back alleys. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I didn’t say all forms of identification were unreliable, just ID cards in bars. Like I said before, how many people here would be willing to bet their houses that every single person in a crowded bar is using a legit ID? Okay, so what form of ID \*\*do \*\*you believe is acceptable? If someone presented a person with this form of ID and it later turned out to be forged in a way not obvious to anyone but an expert, would you accept that as having “proven” to them that the person they were sleeping with was of legal age? $5 says you ignore this question. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/617 "2010-05-21T15:10:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I remember seeing a case a little while ago where a kid (I think he was like 17) got a huge sentence for getting a blowjob from a 15 year old. Bill O’Reilly was all for it **(probably because the kid was black)** If you’re going to take the position that we should simply rely on one person’s individual discretion to prevent injustice, perhaps you should avoid reminding us of reasons why this is a really bad idea. It’s easy enough to shoot down your arguments without your actually handing us ammunition… ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/618 "2010-05-21T15:16:18Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Your point seems to be that having casual sex is a risky activity and you assume the legal risk of any harm you might cause by accidentally having sex with a minor when you have casual sex. The problem is not with the inherent risks that are just part of how reality works (e.g. you might pick up an STD), but with the deliberately imposed risks created by **Diogenes** ’ personal preference (i.e. you might become a criminal with neither knowledge nor intent of lawbreaking, and may not defend yourself against criminal charges). It’s analogous to the various waiting period, sonogram, etc. rules dreamed up by anti-abortion activists, ostensibly to insure informed consent but actually to obstruct and punish indirectly what they cannot gain the political traction to prohibit directly. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/619 "2010-05-21T15:20:49Z")
Wait. WAIT. Stop the motherfucking presses. **Shot From Guns** is a woman? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677/620 "2010-05-21T15:25:57Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Wait. WAIT. Stop the motherfucking presses. > > **Shot From Guns** is a woman? [spoiler]( . Y . ) Hope you didn’t open the spoiler if you’re 18+, because you have only my own assertion that those ASCII tits are old enough for you to look at.[/spoiler] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-ignorance-of-age-not-an-excuse/538677.md?page=32)