Thanks for clearing that up. You have identified yourself as a racist, and now we’ll know how much weight to give your “positions”.
So are you now willing to back off this part of the statement you made
since you acknowledge China’s economy is also socialist, protectionist, and planned? Especially since China is outperforming the growth of much more liberalized economies like the United States and Singapore?
Also, I must insist you defend the second part of your statement
If you live in the United States, you belong to a culture that believes a man literally rose from the dead to save the world from itself. The reason it needed saving is because people pursued knowledge, thereby condemning themselves to oblivion. Talk about illogical anti-science based culture!
Also, Indian universities are first-world quality, while China’s are viewed with great suspicion. Are you sure you want to make the argument that Indian culture is more opposed to reason and science than China’s?
Yes.
I meant in the past-India liberalized somewhat after China.
The problem isn’t so much a belief in the supernatural as opposed to the whole caste system which retards economic growth growth due to fear of “defilement” or not.
We can find common ground on this point. The caste system in India has certainly contributed to their economic problems, and may even be the biggest contributing factor.
When all else fails, shout, “Racist!” :eek::eek::eek:
And here we have what has become a standard defense of racism on this board; acting as if accusations of racism are automatically wrong and motivated by some desire to shut the other party up. As opposed to the other party expressing racist beliefs and making racist claims.
China has far greater infrastructure than India. That said, it doesn’t mean that China is doing it right. India is being more mindful (long term), but they still have the population of a pyramid size ant hill. Be careful with your emerging market positions.
Take the discussion of “intelligence” to another thread.
Take accusations of racism to The BBQ Pit.
New Deal Democrat, injecting one more claim of “racial superiority” into a thread is becoming your one trick pony, particularly when you rely on the fraudulent work of James Lynn. If you simply must go on about that topic, open your own thread; stop interrupting threads that have genuine discussions going.
[ /Moderating ]
Culture must play a large role. Chinese have bureaucratic collectivism in their bones, unlike the West education in China has been historically a government pursuit. Communism just happens to be a modern veneer. In China unity is and has always been the ideal. The Han have a common race, culture and language.
While democracies win in a long race of innovation and stability totalitarianism certainly can make initial great strides more efficiently and maintain cohesion regardless of great setbacks.
Because with some things, a Communistic, one-party, authoritarian system is more beneficial.
For example, before the Beijing Olympics, China had to clean up a lot of its shit so it would be fit for human habitation. They didn’t have to have votes on it, or pay people off (much), or have politicians running on platforms to support or oppose it. They told people unilaterally to clean the shit up, stop spitting, have manners, and only drive half the time. And they did it by decree, no negotiations, no opposition
Mind you, that’s horrible, if you’re living there. But for the rest of us who got to see the long term benefits, its not so bad
India is a democracy. That means its slow, messy, and takes 2 steps back for every 3 steps forward. Plus it probably isn’t artificially inflating its currency. That’s why they’re lagging.
It should also be noted that it’s not like India is bumbling about.
Its economy is racing along – just not quite as quickly as China’s at the moment.
There are still many economists concerned that India’s economy is growing too quickly and could “overheat” (cite).
Not sure if everyone will be able to access the article I linked before.
So here is a similar one on Business Standard.
If you you weren’t so genetically inferior as to be ignorant of history, you’d know be smart enough to know racists views, such as your were responsible for by far the greatest chunk of evil, Nazis, KKK, genocide, folks like you who say one group is superior to the other by race.
Really racists are either evil or stupid.
Have you been to India? Spent time with Indian academics?
From my travels, work and academic experience, you are completely, utterly wrong here. Chinese education seems based on acceptance of the party line and parroting back what the teachers want to hear. The Indians I have worked with are far more willing to consider the possibility that what they have been taught is wrong, and to look for other solutions. Which, to me, would be pretty indicative of the right mentality for science and reason.
Issuing personal insults on a topic that a Moderator had ruled out of bounds for this thread 12 hours previously is not appropriate behavior.
This is a Warning to avoid repeating this behavior.
[ /Moderating ]
Pitching in with an attempt at a comprehensive answer for what it’s worth, although most of these have been covered in some fashion. There’re four major differences as I see it. Timing of market reforms, systems of governance, focus on healthcare/education and last and (for a change) also the least, security.
As other posters have noted, quite a lot of the difference can be marked up to India reforming to a largely market driven economy about 10-15 years after China. This gives China a head start which will get wider in the short/medium term, but should have diminishing returns in the longer term - somewhat similar to the way Japan pulled away from China in the 1970’s, but has now been overtaken.
The form of government(democracy/communism) is another major factor which helps the Chinese move faster. The Indian government is remarkably similar to the United States right now, with a well-intentioned but weak left of center government being unable to make any headway in getting anything because of a fractious and loud opposition. For example, some attempts have been made at greater industrialisation, but this has proceeded slowly because of land acquisition issues (largely all those inconvenient people that come along with the land and are mobilised by the political opposition. This is obviously not a problem in China) This essentially means its just tougher to get things done in India, but on the flipside, it also acts as a safety valve of sorts. Catastrophic missteps are less likely.
The initial position of social indicators in the two countries at the time of market reforms was also quite different. India is only just waking up to the importance of health and education - literacy rates are still only 75% in the country, and health coverage is also quite poor. China was ahead on both parameters at the time of its reforms, positioning it better to ‘capitalise’ on the shift to a market economy.
Security - China doesn’t have to deal with a distraction like Pakistan. India has had to deal with it for over half a century, and the Pakistani proxy war was particularly active in the late 80’s and the 90’s - precisely the period that India was first reforming. It’s easier now that most of the world at least recognises that country for the headache it is, and the US presence has caused some of the terrorist attention to be diverted from India to Afghanistan and Pakistan itself.
Actually, I’m not sure where you are getting this from. I’m not denying that caste is a moral/social problem in India (although in urban India you may be hard pressed to notice it. I don’t know my own caste for example) but on what do you base your comments on its economic impact? Racism is/was a huge problem in the US from a moral and social standpoint, but I’m unaware of anybody pointing to it being a factor in the US’ economic performance.
Uh, you do realize that there were a number of disturbances to Olympic events related to the 2008 Tibet riots, and that during the Olympics they restricted the entire provinces of Qinghai and Tibet from travelling or attending Olympic events. A Tibetan was not legally allowed to purchase a ticket for the Olympics. They weren’t even allowed to visit their family in the next state.
I was in Chengdu when the torch came through- the entire city was on lockdown, with only pre-vetted people allowed anywhere near the procession. Us foreigners were sternly told no to even try to see it. Even with that intense of security, it was still re-routed in secret and taken through a totally different route than was told to the public.
Display of unity, my butt. You saw a display of unity on the TV, but there was a lot of work put in to selling that illusion.
The places where slavery was most rampant in America are economically suppressed compared to the rest of the country.
The caste system is far more complex that simple racism, is still widely accepted as legitimate, and there are far more government programs aimed at different castes.
The caste system is far more culturally and religiously tied into the Indian culture. Yes, racism was important, but the American experience isn’t markedly different because we aren’t racist. If we were still racist today, society would be pretty similar with the change that blacks would be even more segregated and held down. Compare that with Indian. A rejection of the caste system is a rejection of Hinduism and traditional Indian culture.
In the caste system (keep in mind this is a broad generalization) there are many stratas and different classifications. Contrast that with racism in the U.S. where either you were black or not (another big generalization). So if you numbered the different castes (there are thousands) from 1 to whatever with #1 being the most privileged and whatever being the least, where is the line for discrimination? Does #1 discriminate against everyone else? What about everyone above #100 discriminating against those below? #500, #1000, #3000?
That complication makes government programs that much more treacherous. Continuing with my examples above, if the government says everyone below caste #1253 gets government quotas and assistance, how do you think caste #1252 is going to feel? And if they make the line #1252 what about #1251. What you end up with is is a situation where groups are looking to protect or get special privileges. That turns them into one issue voters, and makes it a lot easier to be a corrupt politician.
It’s hard enough for us to decide whether or not someone is black or not. Continuing the example, if someone is 1/4 from caste #256, 1/2 from caste #845, and 1/4 from caste #1102, is that person a member of a discriminated caste?