# Why is ISIS America's problem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 4, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919 "2016-03-04T13:37:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/81 "2016-03-09T01:56:55Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > What genocide? Re gays, dude, the USA’s biggest, longest ally in the region is Saudi Arabia. LOL. Respectfully, is your “what genocide?” meant as a serious question? If so, ISIS is engaged in genocide against a number of religious minorities? I’ll add that in the ME religious and ethnic minorities are pretty much the same thing except to some Arab nationalists. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/82 "2016-03-09T07:25:57Z")
It really isn’t. You have to have be really invested in a particular agenda to suggest such nonsense, or playing semantic games, or just naive. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/83 "2016-03-09T14:14:10Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It really isn’t. You have to have be really invested in a particular agenda to suggest such nonsense, or playing semantic games, or just naive. [http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=50369#.VuAvkfkrJmM](http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=50369#.VuAvkfkrJmM) “ISIL may have committed genocide, war crimes in Iraq, says UN human rights report” Yeah, we’re the ones who are playing semantic games. Suuuuuuure. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/84 "2016-03-09T18:13:59Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It really isn’t. You have to have be really invested in a particular agenda to suggest such nonsense, or playing semantic games, or just naive. Yeah, those damned [folks from the UN](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/20/world/middleeast/isis-genocide-yazidis-iraq-un-panel.html?_r=0) are always invested in a particular agenda, the right wing bastards! > [@](#): > > United Nations Investigators Accuse ISIS of Genocide Over Attacks on Yazidis > > GENEVA — United Nations human rights investigators on Thursday leveled accusations of genocide and war crimes at the Islamic State, citing evidence that the extremist group’s fighters had sought to wipe out the Yazidi minority in Iraq. > > The investigators reported that the pattern of attacks against the Yazidis, a religious minority living mostly in northern Iraq, pointed to the intention of the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, “to destroy the Yazidi as a group.” > > Although the report states cautiously that the extremists “may have committed” genocide, one of the most serious international crimes, Hanny Megally, a senior United Nations rights official, told reporters in Geneva that “all the information points in that direction.” So naive of them, right? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/85 "2016-03-09T21:30:52Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > [http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=50369#.VuAvkfkrJmM](http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=50369#.VuAvkfkrJmM) > > “ISIL may have committed genocide, war crimes in Iraq, says UN human rights report” > > Yeah, we’re the ones who are playing semantic games. Suuuuuuure. Exactly. Almost a year ago and it never changed from “may”. The claim suited an agenda then, and people like you can’t see past the dated headline. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/86 "2016-03-09T21:35:37Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Exactly. Almost a year ago and it never changed from “may”. The claim suited an agenda then, and people like you can’t see past the dated headline. So, your rebuttal is to point out the article is a year old and nothing new has come of it? That’s it? No counter cites, nothing showing that it was wrong either at the time or today, just…it’s a year old? The irony of you saying ‘people like you’ is pretty much…well, on par with your usual content free posts, to be honest. So yeah…militantly unsurprised that this is all you gots. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/87 "2016-03-09T21:39:33Z")
Who are you and why re you following me around everywhere? Naive politics aside, you’re creeping me out. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/88 "2016-03-09T21:41:53Z")
> [@XT](#): > > So, your rebuttal is to point out the article is a year old and nothing new has come of it? That’s it? No counter cites, nothing showing that it was wrong either at the time or today, just…it’s a year old? Rebut what? It’s dumb ass link to something that didn’t happen a year ago. If it had happened i’m sure the poster would have done a better job of supporting their point. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/89 "2016-03-09T21:47:31Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Who are you and why re you following me around everywhere? Naive politics aside, you’re creeping me out. Cool story, bro! > [@](#): > > Rebut what? It’s dumb ass link to something that didn’t happen a year ago. If it had happened i’m sure the poster would have done a better job of supporting their point. Oh, well played! Rub your face in the fact that you have nuffin! You should maybe bring it up a couple more times to really emphasize it! That weell larn usun! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/90 "2016-03-09T22:11:30Z")
Last chance - go away or I have to report you. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/91 "2016-03-09T22:19:10Z")
Both of you ease back. Now. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/92 "2016-03-09T22:32:45Z")
Er…ok. In other news, thought I’d link to [this](http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/09/politics/u-s-isis-detainee-providing-crucial-information-on-chemical-weapons/index.html) CNN article talking about US attacking chemical weapons depots in Iraq (yeah, the irony is pretty freaking ironic). > [@](#): > > (CNN)The U.S. military has conducted airstrikes against targets it believes are crucial to ISIS’ chemical weapons program based on information provided by a senior ISIS operative involved in chemical weapons, several U.S. officials told CNN. > > The U.S. captured the operative in Iraq three weeks ago, the first since a team of Special Operations forces recently began operating in northern Iraq. > > Officials told CNN that his name is Sleiman Daoud Al-Bakkar. One official called him “the key leader,” but others could not say if he runs the entire chemical weapons program for ISIS. > > The information he provided to interrogators has given the U.S. enough information to begin striking ISIS areas in Iraq associated with the group’s chemical weapons program. One U.S. official said the goal is to locate, target and carry out strikes that will result in the destruction of ISIS’s entire chemical weapons enterprise – mainly mustard agent ISIS produces itself. > > It was not immediately clear if the U.S. was able to strike all of the necessary targets. Intelligence and surveillance of the targets had indicated in some Iraqi locations that civilians were present at prospective sites, officials told CNN. > [@](#): > > The U.S. intelligence community has confirmed 12 cases of the use of mustard agent. Three other cases are suspected. They include locations in both Syria and Iraq. The majority of the cases have been in Syria, some as far west as the Maraa line where fighting has raged. Other attacks have occurred across Iraq, including Sinjar Mountain and the area around Mosul, as well as locations further south towards Baghdad. > > However, U.S. officials are somewhat downplaying the attacks, saying they believe any deaths were a result of being hit by artillery, not the agent itself. > > Since interrogations of the detainee began, U.S. Special Operations forces have been using the information he has provided to begin to locate targets. So, yeah…assuming one believes this now hour old report from CNN and the whole US military intelligence in Iraq thingy, seems like it might be significant. ---
**Author:** ![Salvor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Salvor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salvor)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/93 "2016-03-13T06:23:00Z")
/all over the place ramble It’s our (an Americans) problem to the extent that we care about human rights. The conceit of the ultimate realists is that foreign policy should primarily be about our own national interests vs human rights. The neocon (in the non demonized form) think human rights are universal, and to the extent they are not allowed to thrive in areas of the world, it is both the \*\*prerogative \*\*and obligation to march in and change the status quo through force. The bolded is anathema to almost all leftists. Our prerogative? They categorically reject this line of thought, who are we to say our values are BETTER than another cultures? Who are we to say that our way of doing things is superior and gives us license to change the behavior of another society through force? They stand for nothing in terms of human rights, there ARE no human rights, only human interests. And it is no more legitimate to use military might to subdue religious fanatics bent on slaughter than it is to subdue slavers in southern states bend on prolonging chattel slavery… oh wait. But, it’s different if it’s against another country. Oh I see, so it’s ok if the exact same behavior and justification is used within a nation, or a nation with a civil war, but not OK between nations, or between a nation and a sub group across many nations? Got it. The successes of this type of neocon excess is Japan/Germany/S. Korea./Kurdish areas of Iraq. The failures? The rest of Iraq, Syria, Libya, others I’m sure will be listed by the disciples of Chomsky in the never ending pantheon of American horrors that comparatively blot out all other evils in the world. In fiction the greatest example of a benevolent NEOCON is Danerys Targaryen. The neocon (in demonized form) seeks to enter other nations purely from some Imperialist mindset of the style of Victorian England or the period of manifest destiny. They seek to dominate and enslave and steal the property and oil of other nations, they seek to diminish them to nothing but puppet status to their vindictive masters who profit not only on theft, but donations from the myriad of security contractors and weapons constractors that encircle them. Best example of the clear rape and devastation of neocon excess can be cataloged by nation over time: Korea : Cleaved in two, the American backed section is prosperous and thriving the anti american china backed communist slave state is a land of darkness and misery… Japan : The Emperor compelled to tell Japanese citizens to lay down their arms and surrender vs fighting to the last man like some death cultists, nation goes onto to be robbed so blind that they are now one of the wealthiest and most prosperous countries in the world. Germany : Economic power of Europe Vietnam : US lost, and because of their thwarting the wicked imperialist power that seeks ONLY to dominate and steal and enslave, they were spared the terrible fates of s. korea and Japan and Germany, and instead gained… Over a decade of delayed economic progress and thriving by focusing on the enemy of the US, communist policies that failed repeatedly. Clearly a GOOD thing the US lost by bailing in that war, blame those wicked neocons. skipping ahead Iraq : Aside from the Kurds, total disaster, oil not stolen, but money and lives wasted, the violence was eventually tamped down but at a terrible cost in lives, and when we pulled our neocon forces that can ONLY ever make things WORSE anywhere they go, the shia allowed the blood feud ignite and set off a chain of events that allowed ISIS to gain power and mindshare in the Sunni population. Lesson, in the modern age, do not intervene anymore, not because US intentions are as wicked and malevolent as the leftists claim they are, or that it can only ever lead to disaster and imperial slaughter and theft, but because if we do not have the political will to stick it out, a worse outcome can result, which is exactly what happened in Iraq. The neocons do not want to stand idly by while the sadists of the world march the weaker unto the slaughter, they are inclined to offer more than JUST moral support and economic sanction as weapons against the true butchers of the world, they extend the support to direct financial and weapons aid and training, and even military assistance, they are not indifferent to whether ISIS slaughters all the more moderate Kurds in the region or if they lose out, they actually give a flying #%^ about the well being of mankind in a way that might actually make more of a dent than a blind speech. But nevermind, it’s happening “over there” We should not be expected to be the worlds policeman, and you know what? I kind of agree, but it’s not a terrible impulse to have circles of concern that extend out farther than your own family, or tribe, or nation. It used to be the case that liberals were the ones that MOST championed HUMAN rights, that extend across all cultures and reference frames, not JUST for us, but all mankind. This is not a wicked impulse, and the attitude that it’s not our problem or concern is a scale of callousness that makes me wonder just how different the ultra left is from the far right paleocons of old, who wanted a world of fortress America where the first and last concern that was proper to hold was about me and mine. Don’t you DARE spent a cent or a single drop of blood for the sake of any other people. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/94 "2016-03-14T22:33:45Z")
Good news, everyone who thinks that Putin was fighting ISIL! That war is over! [Putin to withdraw most troops from Syria!](http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/14/world/russia-syria-withdrawal/) How do you say “Mission Accomplished” in Russian? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/95 "2016-03-16T09:00:45Z")
None of thta post makes any sense. Again. You’re equating GWB standing on the deck of an aircraft carrier announcing an invasion had been successful and a peaceful occupation started, with a completed 60-day operation with limited aims. The two have as much in common as a nuclear strike and a quiche. You are embarrassing the forum. ---
**Author:** ![tafowler87](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f07891/32.png) [@tafowler87](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tafowler87)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/96 "2016-03-16T09:20:59Z")
ISIS likes the state of crisis… They creep up like little mices… Attacking by the roll of dices… Threatening all the nicest… Pretending to be wisest… Cheesiest of slices… Just waiting to entice us. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/97 "2016-03-16T12:47:34Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > None of thta post makes any sense. Again. > > You’re equating GWB standing on the deck of an aircraft carrier announcing an invasion had been successful and a peaceful occupation started, with a completed 60-day operation with limited aims. > > The two have as much in common as a nuclear strike and a quiche. > > You are embarrassing the forum. I’m not sure if you are offended that I’m disparaging GWB or that I’m disparaging Putin. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/98 "2016-03-17T16:02:55Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > What genocide? Today’s news: > **[Kerry: ISIS Is Committing Genocide](https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/john-kerry-isis-committing-genocide-n540706)** > > Kerry announced the designation on Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/99 "2016-03-17T16:14:33Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Today’s news: > > [Kerry: ISIS Is Committing Genocide Against Yazidis, Christians and Shiite Muslims](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/john-kerry-isis-committing-genocide-n540706) If he wasn’t convinced by the earlier cites I doubt this assertion by the US is going to change his mind. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919/100 "2016-03-17T17:13:04Z")
Honest broker John Kerry: So having done nothing about it for a year, Kerry pipes up the day after Putin says he’s leaving. I know you guys don’t get perspective but the entire international community laughs at US foreign policy atm. It’s ridiculous more than embarrassing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-isis-americas-problem/747919.md?page=6)