# Why is Israel building new settlements in the West Bank? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835 "2017-02-02T17:45:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/21 "2017-02-02T23:16:06Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > In return, Israel recognized the PLO. As “the representative of the Palestinian people”, not a nation. Further, Israel opposed the upgrade of Palestine to a non-member observer state to the UN. > [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](#): > > I believe that Palestinian leadership has already made it quite clear that [they want](http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4122473,00.html) [no Jews](http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Abbas-wants-not-a-single-Israeli-in-future-Palestinian-state-321470) [in Palestine](http://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-says-there-will-be-no-israelis-in-palestine/). Israelis and Jews aren’t the same thing, though. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Maybe so, but Hamas aids and abets such acts. And Palestine insists that Hamas be at the table. Hamas isn’t in power in the West Bank, which is where the settlements are. > [@](#): > > 1. PLO aint running the show anymore " Hamas charter states unequivocally that it does not recognize Israel’s right to exist", there is a difference between not officially recognizing a state and saying that state must be destroyed. See above. Fatah recognizes Israel. > [@](#): > > 1. Due to the fact Palestine makes it an issue. Well, under international law, it is an issue. > [@](#): > > 1. Hamas has given up nothing not even a promise to end terrorism or that Israel has a right to even exist. And yet the settlements are in the West Bank, and not Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/22 "2017-02-03T05:51:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think the idea is that the settlements will be part of Israel and they swap out some other land that they don’t want for the land the settlements are on. And that there is tacit understanding among both sides as to which portions of land those are (whether that idea is true or not is a separate question). Whereas Amona, as a counter-example, was built outside the land that is assumed to be part of a future swap and so could not be permitted to persist. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/23 "2017-02-03T07:16:39Z")
Counting, Gaza, East Jerusalem and West Bank; Palestinians are already a majority in the region. Its basically S Africa in the 1950’s. Western powers could give two fucks and the US approved. ---
**Author:** ![Blinkyandpinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@Blinkyandpinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blinkyandpinky)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/24 "2017-02-03T08:43:07Z")
I believe that it is because it is the best way to achieve peace. History has shown that when Israel has done the opposite of building new settlements they have received war and rockets in return. I am of course referring to when Israel forcibly removed settlers from Gaza. Therefore expanding and building new settlements is a good strategy because it’s the complete opposite of dismantling settlements. Israel should keep on expanding, and the more that the other side waits and procrastinates, the worse of a deal they will eventually end up with, if there is ever to be any sort of deal at all. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/25 "2017-02-03T10:10:05Z")
> [@Blinkyandpinky](#): > > I believe that it is because it is the best way to achieve peace. > > History has shown that when Israel has done the opposite of building new settlements they have received war and rockets in return. I am of course referring to when Israel forcibly removed settlers from Gaza. > > Therefore expanding and building new settlements is a good strategy because it’s the complete opposite of dismantling settlements. > > Israel should keep on expanding, and the more that the other side waits and procrastinates, the worse of a deal they will eventually end up with, if there is ever to be any sort of deal at all. If they expand them far and wide enough, the Palestinians will all fall into the sea. ---
**Author:** ![Blinkyandpinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@Blinkyandpinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blinkyandpinky)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/26 "2017-02-03T10:26:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If they expand them far and wide enough, the Palestinians will all fall into the sea. Technically speaking, that would achieve peace, if your scenario played out. Palestinians should have probably accepted various deals that were offered to them decades ago, because it doesn’t seem as if common sense is very prevalent among their wise leadership. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/27 "2017-02-03T11:38:35Z")
> [@Blinkyandpinky](#): > > Technically speaking, that would achieve peace, if your scenario played out. > > Palestinians should have probably accepted various deals that were offered to them decades ago, because it doesn’t seem as if common sense is very prevalent among their wise leadership. Nuking every human on earth outside of Israel would also achieve peace. So would a global plague that kills everyone but me and my wife. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/28 "2017-02-03T11:59:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Nuking every human on earth outside of Israel would also achieve peace. So would a global plague that kills everyone but me and my wife. How would you get take out? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/29 "2017-02-03T18:52:12Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The “why not” is also easy: it isn’t theirs, other people already live there (there have been evictions of Palestinians from settlement areas,) it’s illegal, it provokes hostility, it alienates even the staunchest allies, and it makes an ultimate peace arrangement harder to arrive at. I don’t want to get into an argument over all your points, but it’s hard to agree that the territory isn’t theirs. Obviously if they’re building settlements in an area, they must have control of it. The most you can say is that the territory shouldn’t be theirs. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/30 "2017-02-03T18:58:08Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The “why” is easy: they want to expand, they believe the land is theirs, they conquered it in a war, and the settlements provide a (small) defensive line against future wars. Very much the same “why” as U.S. settlers colonized Ohio. It’s there, and they want it. > > The “why not” is also easy: it isn’t theirs, other people already live there (there have been evictions of Palestinians from settlement areas,) it’s illegal, it provokes hostility, it alienates even the staunchest allies, and it makes an ultimate peace arrangement harder to arrive at. Pretty much, for all of Human civilization “My army is there” has been the #1 definition of whose land it is legally. Illegal based upon what? UN resolutions by racist nations? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/31 "2017-02-03T19:07:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Pretty much, for all of Human civilization “My army is there” has been the #1 definition of whose land it is legally. > > Illegal based upon what? UN resolutions by racist nations? Might makes right? That’s the end of it? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/32 "2017-02-03T19:37:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Might makes right? > > That’s the end of it? what _does_ make right then? Racist antisemitic nations cramming the UN? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/33 "2017-02-03T19:50:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > what _does_ make right then? Racist antisemitic nations cramming the UN? So do you think might makes right or not? If might makes right, and therefore since Israel has the power to build the settlements that renders all questions of right and wrong moot, then why doesn’t having a bunch of racist anti-semitic votes in the UN make all questions of right and wrong moot? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/34 "2017-02-03T19:58:25Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > So do you think might makes right or not? If might makes right, and therefore since Israel has the power to build the settlements that renders all questions of right and wrong moot, then why doesn’t having a bunch of racist anti-semitic votes in the UN make all questions of right and wrong moot? I’ll guess the answer is the UN has no might. The “right” of it is if you can’t push me off my spot then I am the one in the right. If you can then you get to say what is right. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/35 "2017-02-03T20:28:34Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > . . . Its basically S Africa in the 1950’s. . . . Bad analogy; the West Bank is not part of Israel, whereas the “homelands” in South Africa were part of South Africa. The Palestinians are under military occupation (with substantial self-government.) A better comparison might be Japan in 1946. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Pretty much, for all of Human civilization “My army is there” has been the #1 definition of whose land it is legally. > > Illegal based upon what? UN resolutions by racist nations? The former point, alas, is true. However, as was pointed out in a former thread, it’s illegal according to the Geneva Accords, which Israel signed. (However, Israel claims this doesn’t apply, on the basis of some rather shaky legal reasoning.) ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/36 "2017-02-03T20:34:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t want to get into an argument over all your points, but it’s hard to agree that the territory isn’t theirs. Obviously if they’re building settlements in an area, they must have control of it. The most you can say is that the territory shouldn’t be theirs. If the territory is theirs, the most you can say is that they annexed it, while denying civil rights or citizenship to the people living there, because they are the wrong ethnicity. Not sure that’s better. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/37 "2017-02-03T21:10:17Z")
But what’s the end game here for Israel is what I keep asking myself. Once they’ve sufficiently accomplished swiss-cheesing the West bank with settlements, what next? Is the expectation that Palestinians will finally be worn down by waiting for their own state, give up and move somewhere else? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/38 "2017-02-04T00:09:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > what _does_ make right then? Racist antisemitic nations cramming the UN? Stalin decided that any country the Russian army fought in belonged to Russia. The USA deciding that having liberated the Philippines, they belonged to the USA. Spain wants Gibraltar back after 300 years. Israel believing they own land they fought over when (seven? eight?) countries declared war on them as soon as they became a state. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/39 "2017-02-04T02:05:46Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > If the territory is theirs, the most you can say is that they annexed it, while denying civil rights or citizenship to the people living there, because they are the wrong ethnicity. Not sure that’s better. It’s how most countries were formed. Why single out Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835/40 "2017-02-04T02:26:26Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > But what’s the end game here for Israel is what I keep asking myself. Once they’ve sufficiently accomplished swiss-cheesing the West bank with settlements, what next? > Is the expectation that Palestinians will finally be worn down by waiting for their own state, give up and move somewhere else? What’s the end-game for any of the participants? Both sides are absolutely wedded to positions the other side rejects as absolutely intolerable. (It’s like asking the Patriots and Falcons to negotiate a settlement, rather than fight it out on the field! 😉 ) Just about the best hope in a long time was the “Road Map to Peace” – and even that left the really hard questions to be discussed at some indefinite time for the final status talks. Since they couldn’t get together to discuss the easier terms, the notion of coming to an agreement on the tough stuff seemed – and seems – impossible. It would be nice if Israel would stop making things worse, day by day…but as for anyone ever making things better, there would seem to be no hope at all. (Keep building settlements; keep launching rockets. And then peace happens!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-building-new-settlements-in-the-west-bank/778835.md?page=3)