# Why is Israel rich and Palestine poor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629 "2012-12-10T18:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![blood63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@blood63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blood63)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/1 "2012-12-10T18:58:00Z")
Here are some possible answers. 1. Israeli got all the good land in 1948. 2. Rich Jews send a lot of money to Israeli. Why rich Arabs do not send money to Palestine is a mystery. 3. The US supports Israel with huge amount of cash (loans?) because the US has a strategic interest in the area. 4. Israelis are industrious and Arabs are lazy. (I somehow doubt this one) 5. any or all of the above. ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/2 "2012-12-10T19:02:06Z")
All of the above. Except to say re: 4). It’s not that Arabs are lazy but that Israelis have more of an entrepreneurial culture. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/3 "2012-12-10T19:11:34Z")
In place of 4) I would put that Israel has an open economy and a relatively transparent government with the rule of law and basic property rights. Those are necessary ingredients for a society to create and maintain wealth. Palestine has been run by a succession of corrupt despots or infighting ideologues for its entire history. Nobody is going to invest in Palestine if they are not confident that the government will guarantee fairness and protection. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/4 "2012-12-10T19:14:40Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > In place of 4) I would put that Israel has an open economy and a relatively transparent government with the rule of law and basic property rights. Those are necessary ingredients for a society to create and maintain wealth. Palestine has been run by a succession of corrupt despots or infighting ideologues for its entire history. Nobody is going to invest in Palestine if they are not confident that the government will guarantee fairness and protection. Right. It’s why most of Africa and South America is poor, too. Terrorist leaders do not make good leaders of nations. There’s also a ‘blame” issue- if you spend all you time blaming someone else for all your problems and not fixing them yourself, you never get out of that hole. Look at Mexico for a example. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/5 "2012-12-10T19:17:02Z")
> [@blood63](#): > > Here are some possible answers. > > 1. Israeli got all the good land in 1948. > 2. Rich Jews send a lot of money to Israeli. Why rich Arabs do not send money to Palestine is a mystery. > 3. The US supports Israel with huge amount of cash (loans?) because the US has a strategic interest in the area. > 4. Israelis are industrious and Arabs are lazy. (I somehow doubt this one) > 5. any or all of the above. It can’t be 2 or 3. “_Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip receive one of the highest levels of aid in the world.[2] Aid has been offered to the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) and other Palestinian Non-governmental organizations (PNGOs) by the international community, including International Non-governmental Organizations (INGOs). The entities that provide aid to the Palestinians are categorized into seven groups: the Arab nations, the European Union, the United States, Japan, international institutions (including agencies of the UN system), European countries, and other nations.[3]”_ > **[International aid to Palestinians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_aid_to_Palestinians)** > > International aid has been provided to Palestinians since at least the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. The Palestinians view the aid as keeping the Israeli–Palestinian peace process going, while Israelis and other foreign policy authorities have raised concerns that it is used to fund terrorism and removes the imperative for Palestinians to negotiate a settlement of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. As a provision of the Oslo Accords, international aid was to be provided to the Palestinians to en The Ad ... ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/6 "2012-12-10T19:19:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Right. It’s why most of Africa and South America is poor, too. Terrorist leaders do not make good leaders of nations. > > There’s also a ‘blame” issue- if you spend all you time blaming someone else for all your problems and not fixing them yourself, you never get out of that hole. Look at Mexico for a example. I’m not too familiar with Mexico, but how much blame rhetoric goes on down there? They certainly have huge problems with corruption and transparency, but when it comes to Latin American deflectoscreeching[sup]1[/sup], I think of Chavez-era Venezuela. [sub]1. Yes, I just invented that. You owe me a dollar each time you use it.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/7 "2012-12-10T19:32:04Z")
partly it’s a bootstrap effect. The government of israel, for example, was determined to provide electricity, water, roads phones, postal service, etc. to a european standard. The european arrivals expected nothing less. These immigrants also had among them the electricians, engineers, project managers, etc. to implement this infrastructure, and the education (literacy, etc.) to learn what they did not have. Despotic and corrupt arab leaders had much less incentive, money or technical experts to implement these changes, if at all, beyond the big cities. Of course, if you want to implement a busines n th Palestinian territories, you have to deal with a corrupt local infrastructure - then you have to deal with a bureaucracy in Israel that did not want you to succeed; try to import any parts, and you have to prove they can’t be used to make weapons. (I.e, fertilizer and deisel fuel - hope you’re not planning an agribusiness). Your shipping will be massively delayed to cross the frontier, and your product could be trapped for weeks by a border closure after some idiot palestinian blows himself and others up and annoys the authorities. Another part is banking - we have western banking, where a startup business routinely borrows to get started or expand - so does Israel. This presumes an open business environment, standard contract law, fair and open courts to collect debts etc. All this fails in a corrupt and arbitrary legal system. The typical Arab middle eastern environment is to hide your wealth unless you have connections, as you are prone to arbitrary “tax” collection, extortion, etc. ---
**Author:** ![sidecar\_jon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@sidecar\_jon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sidecar_jon)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/8 "2012-12-10T19:40:20Z")
I have often wondered why if the Arab world loves the Palestinians why they don’t indeed have the best army, air force and homes, food and agriculture in the world, after all the Arab nations seem to have plenty of cash to throw around. Also if the Palestinians are considered Arabs since they lived in the place now claimed as Israel, why re the Israeli’s not Arabs too? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/9 "2012-12-10T19:59:04Z")
> [@sidecar\_jon](#): > > I have often wondered why if the Arab world loves the Palestinians why they don’t indeed have the best army, air force and homes, food and agriculture in the world, after all the Arab nations seem to have plenty of cash to throw around. Palestine makes a super convenient proxy army to kill Jews with. The Arab world funnels lots of money/supplies to Palestine, but mainly for the purpose of arming them to fight in a proxy war with Israel. Not to mention the wonderful PR victories that Israel keeps handing over. An independent and prosperous Palestine is _not_ in the best interest of the rest of the Arab world. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/10 "2012-12-10T20:08:17Z")
> [@sidecar\_jon](#): > > I have often wondered why if the Arab world loves the Palestinians why they don’t indeed have the best army, air force… Can’t speak to the other items on your list, but as far as arab military power is concerned, you might find this article interesting: [Why Arabs Lose Wars](http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars) > [@Glazer](#): > > All of the above. Except to say re: 4). It’s not that Arabs are lazy but that Israelis have more of an entrepreneurial culture. A friend recently completed his MBA. Part of his assigned reading was a book titled [Start-Up Nation.](http://www.amazon.com/Start-up-Nation-Israels-Economic-Miracle/dp/B0054U58AS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355169957&sr=8-1&keywords=startup+nation) He recommended it to me; I haven’t read it yet, but I plan to. Amazon’s summary: > [@Amazon](#): > > START-UP NATION addresses the trillion dollar question: How is it that Israel-- a country of 7.1 million, only 60 years old, surrounded by enemies, in a constant state of war since its founding, with no natural resources-- produces more start-up companies than large, peaceful, and stable nations like Japan, China, India, Korea, Canada and the UK? > > With the savvy of foreign policy insiders, Senor and Singer examine the lessons of the country’s adversity-driven culture, which flattens hierarchy and elevates informality-- all backed up by government policies focused on innovation. In a world where economies as diverse as Ireland, Singapore and Dubai have tried to re-create the “Israel effect”, there are entrepreneurial lessons well worth noting. As America reboots its own economy and can-do spirit, there’s never been a better time to look at this remarkable and resilient nation for some impressive, surprising clues. ---
**Author:** ![sidecar\_jon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@sidecar\_jon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sidecar_jon)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/11 "2012-12-10T20:20:33Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Palestine makes a super convenient proxy army to kill Jews with. The Arab world funnels lots of money/supplies to Palestine, but mainly for the purpose of arming them to fight in a proxy war with Israel. Not to mention the wonderful PR victories that Israel keeps handing over. > > An independent and prosperous Palestine is _not_ in the best interest of the rest of the Arab world. It does not seem to be good at that,the odd rocket lobed over and they get pasted. If the killing of jews was the idea they are doing it wrong. How much money anyway? Surely not as much as Israel spends in response. And id agree that a prosperous Palestine would not seem to be the desire they seem to be just used as a rather ineffectual cats paw. Maybe useful only as a uniting force but not really cared about. ---
**Author:** ![sidecar\_jon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@sidecar\_jon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sidecar_jon)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/12 "2012-12-10T20:38:50Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Can’t speak to the other items on your list, but as far as arab military power is concerned, you might find this article interesting: > > [Why Arabs Lose Wars](http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars) That is indeed an interesting article. Sounds rather like WW1 British army though. And like Stalin’s ww2 army which proved by sheer weight of numbers one can win. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/13 "2012-12-10T21:10:39Z")
I think this is better suited to Great Debates than GQ. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/14 "2012-12-10T21:15:27Z")
> [@sidecar\_jon](#): > > If the killing of jews was the idea they are doing it wrong. How much money anyway? Surely not as much as Israel spends in response. Exactly the point. A very small investment in rockets leads to a huge expenditure of money and a huge loss of international goodwill on the part of the Israel. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/15 "2012-12-10T21:47:23Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Yes, I just invented that. You owe me a dollar each time you use it.[/sub] Use it? I can’t pronounce it. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/16 "2012-12-10T21:53:39Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Use it? I can’t pronounce it. Well, I can pronounce it. “Duh-flehk-toe-screech-ing.” Oh, fudge! (Hands a loonie to **Friedo** ) (Glares suspiciously at **carnivorousplant** ) You’re in on **Friedo** ’s racket, ain’t ya? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/17 "2012-12-10T22:03:00Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > (Glares suspiciously at **carnivorousplant** ) > > You’re in on **Friedo** ’s racket, ain’t ya? Nah, the last guy who tried to take over Friedo’s racket got his knees busted. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/18 "2012-12-10T22:17:49Z")
> [@blood63](#): > > 1. Israeli got all the good land in 1948. I can’t evaluate that claim but I’m very skeptical it could be the case. I think we can say Israel worked very hard to make its land usable valuable and the Palestinians have not been able to do that. The fact that their land is currently being part-occupied can’t help, but there has also been a shortage of good or even interested leadership and planning. > [@](#): > > 1. Rich Jews send a lot of money to Israeli. I’m sure a lot of money has been sent to Israel that way, but it’s not what keeps the country going. Israel built an economy and it’s not subsisting on handouts from rich old Jews. > [@](#): > > Why rich Arabs do not send money to Palestine is a mystery. Not really. > [@](#): > > 1. The US supports Israel with huge amount of cash (loans?) because the US has a strategic interest in the area. The U.S. gives Israel a substantial amount of aid, but again, people overestimate how much. Israel does stand on its own two feet economically and if the U.S. stopped its support or reduced it, the country wouldn’t collapse. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/19 "2012-12-10T22:23:57Z")
Part of the issue might be because Israeli leaders don’t steal as much of the aid they get. [Cite](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-582487.html). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/20 "2012-12-10T22:49:19Z")
> [@blood63](#): > > Here are some possible answers. > > 1. Israeli got all the good land in 1948. > 2. Rich Jews send a lot of money to Israeli. Why rich Arabs do not send money to Palestine is a mystery. > 3. The US supports Israel with huge amount of cash (loans?) because the US has a strategic interest in the area. > 4. Israelis are industrious and Arabs are lazy. (I somehow doubt this one) > 5. any or all of the above. The fact that you use the word “Palestine” demonstrates part of the problem, which is that the Palestinian Arabs are much more interested in the trappings of statehood (which they believe can be used to undermine Israel) than in doing the actual work of building and bettering themselves. If they took the energy they spend in trying to undermine Israel and used it instead to develop themselves, they would probably be at least as rich as Israel by now. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629.md?page=2)