# Why is Israel rich and Palestine poor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629 "2012-12-10T18:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/21 "2012-12-10T22:55:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Right. It’s why most of Africa and South America is poor, too. Terrorist leaders do not make good leaders of nations. > > There’s also a ‘blame” issue- if you spend all you time blaming someone else for all your problems and not fixing them yourself, you never get out of that hole. I agree that it’s counter-productive. The Palestinian Arabs remind me of some comic-book villain who spends all his time thinking about how he’s going to “get” the hero. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/22 "2012-12-10T23:04:33Z")
Add 6) constant attacks and harassment by Israel. People who spend their time under occupation, being bombed, being shot, being driven out of their homes, or in refugee camps don’t build industrialized nations. I find it highly unlikely that the Israelis would allow them to build such a nation. The Israelis (or anyone else) wouldn’t have done much if at all better under the same conditions. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/23 "2012-12-10T23:13:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Add 6) constant attacks and harassment by Israel. People who spend their time under occupation, being bombed, being shot, being driven out of their homes, or in refugee camps don’t build industrialized nations. I find it highly unlikely that the Israelis would allow them to build such a nation. The Israelis (or anyone else) wouldn’t have done much if at all better under the same conditions. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Israel spend the first 30-odd years of its existence under constant threat of annihilation by its neighbors? It wasn’t until the Camp David accords that it had one neighbor that wasn’t bent on driving it into the sea. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/24 "2012-12-10T23:19:08Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Israel spend the first 30-odd years of its existence under constant threat of annihilation by its neighbors? That’s not remotely the same as being actually under occupation or attacked or having your lands fragmented. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/25 "2012-12-10T23:26:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Part of the issue might be because Israeli leaders don’t steal as much of the aid they get. > > [Cite](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-582487.html). > > Regards, > Shodan Yeah, most of the disparity between Israel and Palestine boils down to the fact that Israel’s government is strong, united, and not overly corrupt, while Palestine’s leadership is weak, divided, and thoroughly corrupt. This says nothing about the people, of course. Obviously there’s nothing innate about Israelis or Palestinians that make them better or worse human beings. The framework for a successful Palestinian state just hasn’t been laid yet. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/26 "2012-12-10T23:28:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s not remotely the same as being actually under occupation or attacked or having your lands fragmented. Certainly not for lack of trying… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/27 "2012-12-10T23:29:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s not remotely the same as being actually under occupation or attacked or having your lands fragmented. Israel was attacked several times over that period, of course, and later there were plenty of bombings and terrorist attacks. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/28 "2012-12-10T23:30:53Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Certainly not for lack of trying… Israel was attacked … what, 3 times? (48, 6-day war, Yom Kippur War) and would certainly have been occupied and fragmented. They were just better at repelling attack. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/29 "2012-12-10T23:35:22Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Certainly not for lack of trying… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/30 "2012-12-11T00:00:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Israel was attacked several times over that period, of course, and later there were plenty of bombings and terrorist attacks. Still not even close to the conditions the Palestinians have lived under. I don’t believe that anybody could have been in the position of the Palestinians and built a modern industrial nation. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/31 "2012-12-11T00:31:29Z")
> [@sidecar\_jon](#): > > Also if the Palestinians are considered Arabs since they lived in the place now claimed as Israel, why re the Israeli’s not Arabs too? Er…no. The Palestinians aren’t considered Arabs because of where they lived. They’re considered Arabs because the speak Arabic. The Israelis, by contrast don’t speak Arabic, but speak Hebrew. You might as well ask why the Turks and the Kurds aren’t considered Arabs. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/32 "2012-12-11T00:35:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Israel was attacked several times over that period, of course, and later there were plenty of bombings and terrorist attacks. They’ve never been conquered and occupied for almost half-a-century. I don’t see how anyone, particularly when they don’t even have a state, could have become a modern industrial nation as the OP is wondering. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/33 "2012-12-11T00:36:34Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The Israelis, by contrast don’t speak Arabic, but speak Hebrew. Although Arabic and Hebrew do share a common linguistic ancestor. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/34 "2012-12-11T00:47:00Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Although Arabic and Hebrew do share a common linguistic ancestor. So does Spanish and French but Parisians aren’t Hispanics. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/35 "2012-12-11T01:01:26Z")
Israel has chosen education, and many Muslim nation do not provide non-religious schools. Some don’t even _permit_ them. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/36 "2012-12-11T01:11:39Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > They’ve never been conquered and occupied for almost half-a-century. The first citizens of Israel certainly had. I’m sure the memory of the diaspora colors Israeli culture and mind set. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/37 "2012-12-11T01:20:10Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Israel has chosen education, and many Muslim nation do not provide non-religious schools. > Some don’t even _permit_ them. Which of the Arab nations surrounding Israel(Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Egypt) don’t “provide” or even “permit” non-religious schools? Besides we’re talking about “the Palestinians” not “Muslims”. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/38 "2012-12-11T01:22:33Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The first citizens of Israel certainly had. > I’m sure the memory of the diaspora colors Israeli culture and mind set. For starters Palestine is still occupied. Israel isn’t. And no, Israel’s first citizens were never “occupied”. Obviously most came from countries where they were persecuted minorities but that’s a seperate issue. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/39 "2012-12-11T01:22:36Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The first citizens of Israel certainly had. But that rather proves my point; Jews who were being occupied and persecuted didn’t build anything like Israel under those conditions; they couldn’t. No one can. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629/40 "2012-12-11T01:35:00Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Israel has chosen education, and many Muslim nation do not provide non-religious schools. > Some don’t even _permit_ them. That I think is one major key. The Jews came to Palestine with a European heritage that valued education, and a Jewish heritage that revered education (the one thing even a pogrom can’t steal from you). They followed in the footsteps of North Americans and Europeans in making education mandatory (since someone was asking why USA was rich vs. Mexico or S. America…) Most technical jobs require education. You can’t even process paperwork without literacy, you can’t work in a bankk without math, you can’t read a repair manual … education. Keep in mind too, the Israeli state may not have wanted the Palestinians to get too economically powerful; but so did the Palestinian radicals. A West Bank full of happy, rich families with cars, jobs, and businesses, their own big house with satellite big-screen TVs and internet, vacations in Sharm el Sheik and a pilgrimage to Mecca every decade - these guys would not be interested in backing an intifada. Tick off the Israelis, who are stupid enough to play into the Hamas’ hands and bomb the crap out of the infrastructure, bankrupt any business by blockades and trash the economy with blockades… Hey, it makes a perfect base to build a new generation of warriors willing to blow themselves up for the cause. All for a few dozen homemade rockets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-rich-and-palestine-poor/643629.md?page=3)