# Why is Israel so important to the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 5, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252 "2003-03-05T15:24:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/41 "2003-03-06T04:01:47Z")
Actually, they have a powerful military because my grandfather sold them a censoredload of ‘scrap metal’ back in the late 40s. Or, at least, that’s how the family story goes. ---
**Author:** ![tcdaniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@tcdaniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcdaniel)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/42 "2003-03-06T04:14:23Z")
What is the purpose of foreign aid to Israel? Can’t they pay their own bills? Is this aid granted forever by some old dusty paper or just temporary until they can get on their feet? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/43 "2003-03-06T06:26:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamerlane \* > \*\*Perhaps. But it is sort of irrelevant to the OP, which **cmkeller** was answering. A pre-foundation of the state of Israel event has very little to do with modern American support of Israel. > > This is probably not the best place to hash out “who are the bigger terrorists” argument for the umpteenth time - Plenty of threads in GD for that. > > - Tamerlane \*\* Sorry, I realise that but I was disagreeing with part of Cmkeller’s post rather than specifically answering the OP. C K Dexter Haven, What made the King David Hotel different was the way that the bombers did not care that they killed (a) innocent civilians and (b) their own people. If you are arguing that you can’t have terrorism against military installations then I guess the Pentagon on September 11th wasn’t terrorism either. ---
**Author:** ![2Thick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/a88e57/32.png) [@2Thick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Thick)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/44 "2003-03-06T06:40:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > \*\*Oh, the old “Jews control the media” shtick. > \*\* I wish I lived in your fantasy world. Do the rivers run with beer there? ---
**Author:** ![2Thick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/a88e57/32.png) [@2Thick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Thick)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/45 "2003-03-06T06:45:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\* > A better question would be, why is FRANCE an ally? \*\* Did you ever attend history class in high school? The reason France is an ally is because there would be no United States of America if it were not for the French. ---
**Author:** ![2Thick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/a88e57/32.png) [@2Thick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Thick)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/46 "2003-03-06T06:50:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > \*\*Oh, the old “Jews control the media” shtick. > \*\* Forget the source of the information. Focus on the information itself (if you can do that without your brain exploding). [http://www.americandefenseleague.com/mediain1.htm](http://www.americandefenseleague.com/mediain1.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/47 "2003-03-06T07:23:51Z")
I’m well aware of the role of France in the American Revolution, 2Thick. I’m also aware that that was a couple of hundred years ago. But my point wasn’t that France shouldn’t be an ally. My point was that France IS an ally, despite being a royal pain in the ass on many occasions. Yet the people who routinely question the U.S.'s alliance with Israel never seem to ask about France. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/48 "2003-03-06T07:31:37Z")
Because Israel is floating on oil! What?!! ---
**Author:** ![2Thick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/a88e57/32.png) [@2Thick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Thick)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/49 "2003-03-06T07:57:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*I’m well aware of the role of France in the American Revolution, 2Thick. > > I’m also aware that that was a couple of hundred years ago. > > But my point wasn’t that France shouldn’t be an ally. My point was that France IS an ally, despite being a royal pain in the ass on many occasions. Yet the people who routinely question the U.S.'s alliance with Israel never seem to ask about France. \*\* If history is not important then why drudge up WWII and Vietnam? ---
**Author:** ![Saen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Saen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saen)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/50 "2003-03-06T08:02:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamerlane \* > \*\*But suicide tactics are a relatively recent innovation. > > \*\* nitpick kamikaze ring a bell? And I do not know how familiar you are with the Vietnam war, but suicide attacks were used extensively on Americans and S. Vietnamese. Especially in the Tet Offensive. The only thing “new” about it is the , what did you call it?, theological justification to blatantly slaughter innocent men women and children specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/51 "2003-03-06T08:17:26Z")
2Thick, are you being annoying on purpose? You don’t see a difference between what France did 200 years ago, and what it did 40 years ago? Or yesterday? In any event, it’s irrelevant to the point I was making, which I notice you conveniently avoided. I guess you couldn’t figure out a good way to bash Israel while responding. ---
**Author:** ![2Thick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/a88e57/32.png) [@2Thick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Thick)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/52 "2003-03-06T08:33:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*2Thick, are you being annoying on purpose? > > You don’t see a difference between what France did 200 years ago, and what it did 40 years ago? Or yesterday? In any event, it’s irrelevant to the point I was making, which I notice you conveniently avoided. I guess you couldn’t figure out a good way to bash Israel while responding. \*\* Yes, I am an anti-semite, anti-zionist and anti-israeli. Your point is flat. There are a million-and-one reasons why France is an ally. I am sure that most are economic. You see France’s pursuit of its own interests as something bad only b/c it goes against US interests. Ask a valid question and you will receive an answer. ---
**Author:** ![mystic2311](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@mystic2311](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mystic2311)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/53 "2003-03-06T08:48:38Z")
According to Jesse Helms, Israel is the equivalent of an aircraft carrier in the Middle East. It’s proxy colonialism. “I have long believed that if the United States is going to give money to Israel, it should be paid out of the Department of Defense budget. My question is this: If Israel did not exist, what would U.S. defense costs in the Middle East be? Israel is at least the equivalent of a U.S. aircraft carrier in the Middle East. Without Israel promoting its and America’s common interests, we would be badly off indeed.” > **[Jesse Helms: Setting the Record Straight](https://www.meforum.org/244/jesse-helms-setting-the-record-straight)** > > Jesse Helms is the senior senator from North Carolina and the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Born in 1921, he held a number of positions in journalism and in politics before his election to the Senate in 1972. Mr. Helms has made... ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/54 "2003-03-06T09:22:51Z")
mystic2311: Well seeing that America has no military bases of any kind inside Israel that’s a bit of a bad analogy. However the US does have bases in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait. If there’s an ‘aircraft carrier’ for the US in the Middle East it’s probably one of those countries. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/55 "2003-03-06T10:21:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\*Also, there’s this kind of very occasional political comment that might bear further consideration: [From here](http://www.palestinechronicle.com/article.php?story=20011119013421514): > > \*Senator Fullbright, Chair of Senate Foreign Relations Committee: 10/07/1973 on CBS’ “Face the Nation”. \* > “I am aware how almost impossible it is in this country to carry out a foreign policy [in the Middle East] not approved by the Jews… terrific control the Jews have over the news media and the barrage the Jews have built up on congressmen … I am very much concerned over the fact that the Jewish influence here is completely dominating the scene and making it almost impossible to get congress to do anything they don’t approve of. The Israeli embassy is practically dictating to the congress through influential Jewish people in the country” > > … said _30 years ago_, only 25 years after Israel was created.\*\* I’m not sure if I’m the only one who caught this, but… That quote is attributed to Sec. of State John Foster Dulles, not Senator Fullbright. Apparently, Dulles made the remark in 1957 in the book _Fallen Pillars_ by Donald Neff. Of course, Fullbright’s quote is no better: “The Israelis control the policy in the congress and the senate.” Still, thought we ought to clarify, as some folks frown upon not properly attributing quotes. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/56 "2003-03-06T10:23:23Z")
Of course, I should also learn the proper spelling of Fulbright! ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/57 "2003-03-06T10:35:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 2Thick \* > \*\*Forget the source of the information. > > Focus on the information itself (if you can do that without your brain exploding). > > [http://www.americandefenseleague.com/mediain1.htm](http://www.americandefenseleague.com/mediain1.htm) \*\* **2Thick** - that page is no help. It looks more like a rant on increased sex in the media, rather than Jewish control and bias. I’m not saying there isn’t significant pro-Israeli bias in a lot of US media (just as there is pro-Arab bias in this part of the world) but that page does not demonstrate it. Also, Jew!=Israeli. Not all Jews - and certainly not all Americans - support the Sharon regime and its actions. Not all Jews even support the concept of Israel. I fail to see a connection between the sexualisation of Disney, the “racially mixed rock and rap” of MTV, and pro-Israeli bias. Jewish ownership does not necessarily constitute bias. It is possible to be objective and impartial about your own race, or religion, or “homeland.” ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/58 "2003-03-06T11:23:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by leander \* > I’m not sure if I’m the only one who caught this, but… > > That quote is attributed to Sec. of State John Foster Dulles, not Senator Fullbright. Apparently, Dulles made the remark in 1957 in the book _Fallen Pillars_ by Donald Neff. I don’t think you’re correct, \*\* leander \*\*. If you take another look you’ll see the (much longer) quote _below_ is attributed to John Foster Dulles. I believe I got the attribution to Senator Fullbright right. On the more general point and referring to the link provided by **2Thick** , is anyone disputing the point made in the link that ‘pro-Israeli’ interests have control of the NYT, the Wash Post and the WSJ agenda and perspectives … or are we just critiquing the piece ? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/59 "2003-03-06T11:36:01Z")
Well. Seriously, I suppose we could have at it, by taking a reasonable sampling of influential media companies, their few most recent CEOs, and trying to discover if they’re part of any great conspiracy. Washington Post. Very important, influential newspaper. Run by a widow of a guy. Washington… uh, Times? Reverend Moon. There’s the Rupert Murdoch conglomerate… is he jewish? Does he have any slanting towards Israel evident through all his stations? TBS used to be Ted Turner till recently. Not Jewish at all. AOL-Time-Warner? CBS? NBC? ABC? NY Times? NY Post? BBC? ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252/60 "2003-03-06T11:47:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*Why do we need to come up with special reasons to explain the alliance of the U.S. and Israel? What is it about Israel that should make it America’s enemy absent some overriding _excuse_? > > America makes alliances with democracies, and with dictatorships that are strategically important. Israel is a Democracy AND strategically important. > > But even if Israel was some dirt-poor democracy out in the Pacific Ocean somewhere, it would be a good friend of the United States. > > A better question would be, why is FRANCE an ally? France has authoritarian and colonial impulses. France has always been a very unreliable ally, and has at times been overtly hostile. Yet, the U.S. liberated France in WWII. The U.S. got into trouble in Vietnam in part because of blind loyalty to France’s colonial ambitions in Vietnam. France has sold weapons to America’s enemies, France has worked to split the U.S. from other allies. Remember that nuclear reactor of Iraq’s that Israel bombed, and took heat throughout the world for doing? FRANCE provided that reactor to Saddam, against the wishes of the United States. And aren’t we all glad today that Israel took that reactor out? > > And yet, the U.S. considers France an ally. Why? Because France is a democracy. Because France, when it comes right down to it, is a member of a community of civilized nations, warts and all. > > Israel is also a member of that community, warts and all. And Israel has been a staunch friend of the United States for decades. It is a stable, western-oriented, pluralistic democracy that believes in the same rights and freedoms as other free nations. And that’s really the only reason you need. > > Again I ask, what makes you assume that Israel SHOULDN’T be an ally? \*\* I simply love your posts **Sam**. Time after time you encapsulate the “difficult” into concise paragraphs which I read with joy. That being said, I still think a WRX sounds like a VW Beetle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-israel-so-important-to-the-us/159252.md?page=4)