# Why is it a bad thing if Saudis support Bin Ladin **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 13, 2004, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-a-bad-thing-if-saudis-support-bin-ladin/250040 "2004-06-13T00:16:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![asrivkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9d8465/32.png) [@asrivkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asrivkin)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-a-bad-thing-if-saudis-support-bin-ladin/250040/61 "2004-06-14T20:57:19Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Hey, genius. There have been diamond wars in Africa for decades. Estimated millions have died. Wake the f\* up.[ > … > Apparently, you’re not reading, because you replied to a comment about DRC with something about South Africa. I’d assumed your post about the DRC was in response to my question about South Africa. I didn’t mention any country other than South Africa. I’m not asking you about the Congo. > [@](#): > > I didn’t. I also didn’t use the term “nitpick.” You said, “oh, just because we’re stealing their oil” and I replied with a list of other things… then you started mumbling about nitpicking and controlling weather. Hang on… > [@Zagadka](#): > > I’ve already outlined a number of things America has done beyond controlling their oil. I suggest you actually read the entire conversation before nitpicking part of it. I’m done. Have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-a-bad-thing-if-saudis-support-bin-ladin/250040/62 "2004-06-15T02:07:38Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > If you’re talking about 100 years ago, I’d agree, but 30 is far more iffy. 30 years ago is recent enough that a lot of the people who were on the receiving end of that treatment are still alive today (or would be if they hadn’t been killed). Claiming that we should only be judged by our current actions is like beating someone up, then when he comes back the next day to do the same to you, you indignantly protest “but I wasn’t attacking you _today_!” There’s a huge difference between yesterday and 30 years ago. Also, what you’re you saying is, a nation has to wait 100 years or so before it deserves forgiveness? That’s pretty freakin harsh. If there was guy who was in his 50’s, who 30 years ago was a wife beater, but since then, had changed his ways, it would not be right to say he’s a bad person, by judging him by what he did when he was in his 20’s. Now, granted, if it had only been, about 5 years or less, it would be right to be suspicious about him, but it would be wrong to say that as he is **now** , he’s a bad person. He **was** a bad person, but that was 30 years ago. Same with America. We **did** targeted civilians **3 decades** ago or more. Yes, many of the people who were there may still be alive, and they have a right to be mad at the way **we use to be** , but…oh hell, I’m just repeating myself. Anyway, I think I made my point. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-a-bad-thing-if-saudis-support-bin-ladin/250040/63 "2004-06-15T02:35:05Z")
> [@asrivkin](#): > > I’d assumed your post about the DRC was in response to my question about South Africa. I didn’t mention any country other than South Africa. I’m not asking you about the Congo. No, but we were talking about the diamond trade. Your comment about South Africa is like saying that oil stealing is OK because Mexico hasn’t attacked us yet (we _do_ import oil from Mexico). For that record, you may want to break out your Amnesty International Report 2003 on South Africa and take a peek at their spotless human rights record. > [@](#): > > Hang on… > > I’m done. Have fun. UGH! You GOT ME! I sure feel bad, and I’m certainly in my place. _yawn_ ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-a-bad-thing-if-saudis-support-bin-ladin/250040/64 "2004-06-15T09:58:19Z")
> [@Master Control](#): > > There’s a huge difference between yesterday and 30 years ago. > Also, what you’re you saying is, a nation has to wait 100 years or so before it deserves forgiveness? That’s pretty freakin harsh. > If there was guy who was in his 50’s, who 30 years ago was a wife beater, but since then, had changed his ways, it would not be right to say he’s a bad person, by judging him by what he did when he was in his 20’s. Now, granted, if it had only been, about 5 years or less, it would be right to be suspicious about him, but it would be wrong to say that as he is **now** , he’s a bad person. He **was** a bad person, but that was 30 years ago. > Same with America. We **did** targeted civilians **3 decades** ago or more. Yes, many of the people who were there may still be alive, and they have a right to be mad at the way **we use to be** , but…oh hell, I’m just repeating myself. Anyway, I think I made my point. Unless that guy (or government) could make a **very** convincing case that he’d changed his ways, yeah, I’d still be suspicious. And I don’t believe that simply not doing bad things _today_ makes one a good person. Guess that makes me harsh. I think this is more a matter of personal opinion; you say that 5 years is too short a time to simply dismiss past actions as irrelevant, I say 30 years is too short. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-a-bad-thing-if-saudis-support-bin-ladin/250040/65 "2004-06-15T16:32:14Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > …some polls that said 50% of Saudis support Bin ladin… > > Why is it when we support ‘our’ soldiers that is morally acceptable but them supporting ‘their’ soldiers is horrid? What would you say if 50% of US supported Abu Ghraib abusers? Would you have a problem with that? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-a-bad-thing-if-saudis-support-bin-ladin/250040/66 "2004-06-16T08:19:37Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Because we need oil. > But the Saudi Royals don’t want to; they’d rather have the moolah than the mullahs. 😉 > > Bin Ladin— _he_ **wants to** scratch our goodies out…to blow our sillies off. :eek: > > So, it’s a bad thing, 'cause Bin Ladin could wind up in charge, & bring Western civilization to a halt, just by turnning off the oil taps. Bin Ladin would turn off the taps? hehehehe! It is to laugh! He’d have starving people in the street looking to remove his head shortly. No, he’d sell oil, and lots of it, to pay for the army that would subdue the populace just like any other despot does. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-a-bad-thing-if-saudis-support-bin-ladin/250040/67 "2004-06-16T16:14:03Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > UGH! You GOT ME! I sure feel bad, and I’m certainly in my place. > > _yawn_ I’m not sure why he expected you to care about being wrong. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-a-bad-thing-if-saudis-support-bin-ladin/250040/68 "2004-06-16T17:08:24Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Bin Ladin would turn off the taps? hehehehe! It is to laugh! He’d have starving people in the street looking to remove his head shortly. No, he’d sell oil, and lots of it, to pay for the army that would subdue the populace just like any other despot does. “Hee-hee-hee” my aching piles. One winter without petroleum, & our goose is cooked. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2004, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-a-bad-thing-if-saudis-support-bin-ladin/250040/69 "2004-06-17T05:23:51Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > “Hee-hee-hee” my aching piles. > > One winter without petroleum, & our goose is cooked. I can see why you’d think that given articles like this: [Saudi importance](http://www.economist.com/business/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2705562) But, while that may be partly true at this point in time it may not be true in the future:[World Oil Reserves (Note Canada)](http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/reserves.html) Alberta, at this time, has the second highest reserves in the world. This is because the technology has developed sufficiently for these reserves to recognized. Total reserves in Alberta is listed as between 1.7 and 2.5 Trillion barrels of oil. Which dwarfs the middle east by a long shot. [Alberta Reserves](http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/102spring2002_Web_projects/M.Sexton/) So, if Osama was able to get ahold of Saudi (probably not going to happen tomorrow) and decides to throw the switch to stop the oil (not bloody likely as oil is the Saudis only significant export and they’d all starve if it stopped), then depending on when this happened it might not have the effect he was hoping for. Also, looking at this link and if I interpret it correctly, it looks like Japan and Europe would be the most effected by such an action, not the US.[Persian Gulf Fact Sheet](http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/pgulf.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-a-bad-thing-if-saudis-support-bin-ladin/250040.md?page=3)