# Why is it called a California Stop? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 7, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240 "2004-01-07T17:32:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/41 "2004-01-08T22:03:12Z")
Washington, D.C., is the only large American city that I’m aware of that has a lot of circles on major streets. They are extremely complicated and dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/42 "2004-01-08T22:16:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GSV Consolation of Dreams \* > \*\*All this talk of 4-way stops reminds me of something. I’ve watched a hell of a lot of American movies and TV and I don’t think I’ve **ever** seen a roundabout or island as they are also known, do they exist in the US? > > The only time I recall seeing one is in National Lampoon’s Eurpean Holiday when the Griswolds get stuck endlessly circling one in Paris. > > They seem like a pretty good device for bringing multiple roads together in a junction while keeping the traffic faily mobile, so I wonder why they aren’t used; or if they are, why you never see one. \*\* They’re popular in **New** Hampshire 😃 There are four that I know of (undoubtably there are more than that,) the closest one just one town over. Maybe you’ve never seen them because you’ve never been to New England? There are a few in MA that I know of too. I don’t understand why they are said to induce panic in people who see them for the first time. It’s not like something bad happens if you miss your exit, you just go 'round again. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/43 "2004-01-08T22:36:44Z")
I’ve seen the East Coast Left Turn (or whatever) in San Francisco. It’s not common, but it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Epileptik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f1d935/32.png) [@Epileptik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epileptik)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/44 "2004-01-08T23:33:41Z")
I’m a California boy, but I lived on the East Coast for several months. People thought I was crazy because I rolled through every stop and drove 10 mph above the speed limit. ---
**Author:** ![Epileptik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f1d935/32.png) [@Epileptik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epileptik)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/45 "2004-01-08T23:47:59Z")
^^^I should probably add that driving like I do is normal out here. ---
**Author:** ![Ave\_Minerva](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@Ave\_Minerva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ave_Minerva)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/46 "2004-01-09T01:04:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GSV Consolation of Dreams \* > \*\*All this talk of 4-way stops reminds me of something. I’ve watched a hell of a lot of American movies and TV and I don’t think I’ve **ever** seen a roundabout or island as they are also known, do they exist in the US? > > The only time I recall seeing one is in National Lampoon’s Eurpean Holiday when the Griswolds get stuck endlessly circling one in Paris. > > They seem like a pretty good device for bringing multiple roads together in a junction while keeping the traffic faily mobile, so I wonder why they aren’t used; or if they are, why you never see one. \*\* NJ has quite a few infamous traffic circles. As others have mentioned us yanks don’t handle them too well. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/47 "2004-01-09T03:22:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bughunter \* > Now, there’s may also be the “West Coast Right” that I’ve only seen out here… when there’s two right hand turn lanes that intersect at a light, drivers in both lanes will make rights on red… I thought it was only legal for the far right turn lane. In California, it’s legal to turn right on red from a marked right turn lane that isn’t the rightmost lane. It’s also legal to turn left on red if you’re in the marked left turn lane of a one-way street and you’re turning onto another one-way street that’s flowing right to left. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by iamthewalrus(:3=_ > I’ve seen the East Coast Left Turn (or whatever) in San Francisco. It’s not common, but it happens. There’s a place you can turn left in San Francisco? ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/48 "2004-01-09T04:29:08Z")
There’s a place you can turn left in St Louis? My brother lives near 55 and Arsenal (near the brewery) and the rule down there seems to be if you’re bigger than the other cars, you don’t have to stop. This may have something to do with the free beer, however. I call it a St Louis stop but Ardred calls it a Boulevard stop. I don’t know why. ---
**Author:** ![GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GSV_Consolation_of_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/49 "2004-01-09T08:53:43Z")
Thanks for the info about “traffic circles” everyone. Seems there a few around but all on the East Coast but not NYC so that would explain why I’ve never seen any in the US media. they really aren’t that bad unless you are a cyclist, when they can be fairly terrifying. Personally the thought of a four way junction **without** traffic lights of some kind fills me with dread. I think they all have them here and if they were removed there would be instant carnage. Thanks for fighting my ignorance. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/50 "2004-01-09T13:17:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WordMan \*\*\*What I want to Trademark is the term **"East Coast Left"** ™. … It’s when the light turns green and the car across the intersection from you in the left-turn bay _throws_ itself into the left turn before the cars coming in the other direction, who have the legal right of way, have a chance to accelerate. \*\* As opposed to the “Buffalo Left,” where two or three cars in the left turn lane throw themselves into the left turn immediately _after_ the light turns red. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/51 "2004-01-09T14:07:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GSV Consolation of Dreams \* > Thanks for the info about “traffic circles” everyone. Seems there a few around but all on the East Coast but not NYC so that would explain why I’ve never seen any in the US media. Actually, a fairly significant traffic circle in New York City is Columbus Circle. However, at this time all of the entrances and exits to the circle are controlled by traffic lights, so it doesn’t really have the usual traffic circle issues. **Cervaise** , if you’re driving a Saturn, are they called Mars Stops? ---
**Author:** ![SendIt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@SendIt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SendIt)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/52 "2004-01-09T15:05:30Z")
Just a thought. California is well-known for it’s police chases. When the suspect vehicle approaches an intersection, they sometimes slow down slightly and watch for traffic, then proceed. Maybe that’s where the name came from. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/53 "2004-01-09T19:14:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Billdo \* > \*\*Cervaise, if you’re driving a Saturn, are they called Mars Stops? \*\* Yes. You must bring your vehicle to a complete stop behind the Mars Bars. _Ow! Ow! Stop hitting me!_ ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/54 "2004-01-09T21:40:23Z")
If you are in a Surreal World, then rolling stops are fish. What? PS: And **SendIt**? Speaking as a native Californian, it is a state, not an episode of TJ Hooker. (OJ Simpson and Rodney King spectacles notwithstanding…) ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/55 "2004-01-09T22:25:40Z")
> [@](#): > > If you are in a Surreal World, then rolling stops are fish. I guess that explains the earlier comments about “California Rolls” … ---
**Author:** ![Jake4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jake4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake4)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/56 "2004-01-09T23:11:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ave Minerva \* > \*\*NJ has quite a few infamous traffic circles. As others have mentioned us yanks don’t handle them too well. \*\* A few of the NJ roundabouts have been re-engineered into ‘regular’ intersections within the past few years, like the Ledgewood circle, or the one on 206 south of Bridgewater. There is at least one here in Eugene, OR, at the intersection of Greenhill and Barger, but as far as I can tell it serves no useful purpose, since it is an area with relatively little traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/57 "2004-01-09T23:37:34Z")
Confirmation: Yes, most Americans hate and fear traffic circles/roundabouts/whaddyacallems. The California stop, as far as I know, got its name from the deeply-held belief of many Californians (like **Quint Essence** ’s mother) that it was once actually legal to roll slowly through a stop sign. Not all Californians were so deluded, and not all those so deluded were Californians, but a lot of Californians have been caught doing it in other states, and blithely explained “Well, it’s legal in California!” (No, it isn’t, and it never was). Along with turning right on red, it was the most common spark for “this ain’t California” comments from state troopers. Right turn on red from two right turn lanes: I do it all the time. You’d think that timed lights would make it unnecessary, but it turns out that it’s only true in the hands of a **competent** traffic planner. Left turns: most places in California (that don’t have left turns lanes and signals where traffic justifies them) have an unofficial “turn after red” policy – that is, people expect two or three cars to turn left after the light changes. I have seen some “turn before green” communities here, but it’s definitely more common on the East Coast. There is some confusion when a furriner comes to town and follows the wrong rules, but it’s usually settled with some well-intentioned cursing. ---
**Author:** ![xvxdarkknightxvx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/34f0e0/32.png) [@xvxdarkknightxvx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xvxdarkknightxvx)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/58 "2004-01-09T23:58:31Z")
I live in New Jersey, and here it’s called a California Stop. Also, you can see the “East Coast Left” at nearly any light with a left turn lane…especially near the malls. ---
**Author:** ![robinh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@robinh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinh)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/59 "2004-01-10T00:03:46Z")
There is a variation of the aforementioned “East Coast Left” we refer to as a “Boston Left.” Confronted with the task of making a left turn across several lanes of traffic, rather than waiting for a fully clear space, one simply pulls out when the closest lane is clear, then the next, and so on, essentially blocking oncoming traffic until one can get to one’s preferred lane. Rude but effective. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240/60 "2004-01-10T03:53:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Frank #2 \* > \*\*There is the “New Jersey Left Turn”, which is when you make a right turn into a jughandle so that you can then drive straight through the intersection to make your left. My guess is a long ago govenor had a bad experience in a left turn lane, so he removed them. \*\* We have those around here, but we call them “Michigan Lefts.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-california-stop/223240.md?page=4)