# Why is it called a 'no-hitter' when there are hits? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 13, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741 "2015-08-13T14:45:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/21 "2015-08-13T21:08:26Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Nope, it’s a perfect game if no one gets on base. No one has ever come close to 27 strikeouts much less 81 strikes. Pssst… I know that! Just taking the OP’s premise to its (il)logical conclusion. But more seriously, a lot of stat-heads now argue (correctly) that pitchers are only in control of a few things: Strikeouts, walks and homers allowed. Everything else involves other players. That is, a fly ball might be caught, or it may fall in for a hit. A cheap grounder may be an easy out, or it may dribble between two infielders and turn into a base hit. Point being, if the batter does ANYTHING but strike out, the pitcher wasn’t truly perfect. He allowed the ball to get into play, meaning there’s a certain amount of luck involved as to whether a base hit results. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/22 "2015-08-13T21:10:44Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Pssst… I know that! Just taking the OP’s premise to its (il)logical conclusion. Oh sorry. You have one of those generic usernames I don’t pick up on, you may be all over the sports threads and I’ve never noticed. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/23 "2015-08-13T21:22:06Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Nope, it’s a perfect game if no one gets on base. No one has ever come close to 27 strikeouts much less 81 strikes. And not all strikes are misses… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/24 "2015-08-13T21:38:58Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Furthermore, why is it called a strike when, indeed, no ball was struck? And why do they call it a “base on balls” when the player never touches the bag with his… err, never mind. > [@TriPolar](#): > > Nope, it’s a perfect game if no one gets on base. No one has ever come close to 27 strikeouts much less 81 strikes. In the 2001 Little League World Series, [Danny Almonte](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Almonte) pitched a perfect game with eighteen strikeouts (a standard little league game is only six innings.) A few weeks later, it was discovered he was actually 14, two years older than the cut-off age for little league. Oops!!! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/25 "2015-08-13T21:47:59Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > No one has ever come close to 27 strikeouts Is 20 close? Roger Clemens did it twice, and Kerry Wood once. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/26 "2015-08-13T21:53:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Is 20 close? Roger Clemens did it twice, and Kerry Wood once. I guess 20 can fairly be called close. I was thinking more of someone entering the 9th with 24 and then blowing it. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/27 "2015-08-13T22:59:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Nope, it’s a perfect game if no one gets on base. No one has ever come close to 27 strikeouts much less 81 strikes. Wait, are you telling me that [_The Scout_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111094/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1) wasn’t a documentary? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/28 "2015-08-14T03:20:20Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > IIRC, Pete Rose once got a winning run off a complete-game nine-inning no-hitter pitcher. Better yet, and once in the late 90s, the White Sox pitched a no-hitter and lost 4-0. (Going by memory here.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/29 "2015-08-14T03:21:46Z")
Memory faulty. Yankees pitched the no-hitter and lost to the Sox 4-0. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/30 "2015-08-14T05:37:31Z")
Sorry. Now that I’m at my computer at home (instead of on the phone at the airport), I can post a link to the [story here](http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/02/sports/no-hitter-but-with-no-glory.html). I also got the date wrong. It was not late 90s, but 1990. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/31 "2015-08-14T06:21:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In a sense, it is actually more important to know if the ball is foul (since that stops play) than fair, (since the players then continue doing whatever they were doing.) From what I know about baseball, that would be a lot of nut scratching and spitting. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@The\_Tof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tof)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/32 "2015-08-14T10:57:59Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I guess 20 can fairly be called close. I was thinking more of someone entering the 9th with 24 and then blowing it. Close to 27 strikeouts but none were really close to being a perfect game. The Clemens 20 strikeout games (vs the Tigers and Mariners) allowed 5 and 3 hits respectively (The Tigers getting a hit int he first inning). Kerry Wood’s was close being a 1 hitter, but that was allowed in the 3rd. Randy Johnson also had a 20 strikeout game over 9 innings, but the game went into extra innings. So, despite him pitching “just” 9 innings, he doesn’t get to go into the record books with Clemens and Wood. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/33 "2015-08-14T11:43:33Z")
[I was at this game.](http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270819109) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/34 "2015-08-14T11:47:22Z")
The only bit that bothers me: I can understand why it’s important to keep track of “hits that improved the field position”. But calling those “hits” uses up that word. What do we call it when the batter makes contact with the ball, regardless of outcome? It seems like there ought to be a word for that, too. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/35 "2015-08-14T11:52:18Z")
It’s called “making contact” if he gets wood on it and “putting the ball in play” if it stays in fair territory. But those aren’t measured stats so it’s not as formalized. ---
**Author:** ![Stormcrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@Stormcrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stormcrow)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/36 "2015-08-14T12:09:16Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > It’s called “making contact” if he gets wood on it and “putting the ball in play” if it stays in fair territory. But those aren’t measured stats so it’s not as formalized. Actually you can get that information - there are sites where you not only can find out a hitter’s contact percentage, but his contact % in and out of the strike zone, and even within sections of the strike zone. They aren’t official stats, though. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/37 "2015-08-14T12:11:39Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > There have only been 77 [immaculate innings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_pitchers_who_have_struck_out_three_batters_on_nine_pitches) (strike out the side on 9 pitches) in MLB history. Has there ever been an inning completed on only three pitches? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/38 "2015-08-14T12:43:59Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Has there ever been an inning completed on only three pitches? Well, a HALF-inning, sure. 🙂 If you google it you’ll find game recaps and youtube videos documenting it; it doesn’t seem to be something anyone’s obsessed on enough to document all the times it’s happened. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/39 "2015-08-14T14:02:36Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > It’s called “making contact” if he gets wood on it and “putting the ball in play” if it stays in fair territory. But those aren’t measured stats so it’s not as formalized. Exactly. And “balls in play” is actually used quite a bit in advanced statistics these days, since quite a lot of research has been done on the effect pitchers and hitters (and defense) can have on BABIP (batting average on balls in play). A extremely high or low BABIP can be a sign that a pitcher’s or hitter’s true talent level is perhaps not reflected in their current traditional statistics. Then you can dig in to the contact rates mentioned, as well as batted ball profiles (things like ground ball %, line drive %) to see if a low BABIP is primarily due to poor contact (e.g. lots of pop-ups) or just bad luck (crushing the ball right to the defenders). ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741/40 "2015-08-14T16:20:54Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > A hit is not just contact with the ball, it’s a specifically defined statistic that means a player has hit the ball and made it safely on base, and more specifically advanced his teams position on the bases. > > There are a variety of ways a player can hit the ball, and not be put out, and still not get a ‘hit’. For instance there is the Fielders Choice, the player hits the ball, it is not caught in the air, but picked up by a fielder, and he decides to throw out a runner at second base instead of throwing out the batter at first base. The batter is safe on first base but he’s not given credit for a hit because as a result the runner was put out anyway and the teams position on the bases has actually declined. Previously they had one man on base and no outs, now they have one man on base and one out. It’s like one of George Carlin’s “two-way words!” You can say “the count is three balls and two strikes” but you can’t say “I think he hurt his balls on the play! Yes, he did, he’s holding them!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-a-no-hitter-when-there-are-hits/727741.md?page=3)