# Why is it called "real estate"?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967>\
**Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\
**Created:** [July 14, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967 "2011-07-14T03:08:57Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Steve\_Weston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Steve\_Weston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Weston)\
**Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/1 "2011-07-14T03:08:57Z")

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Hi Ian,

I’m not sure you answered the question exactly. The question was: Why is it called “real estate”? As a real estate broker in California, this is a question I’ve had for some time. Wikipedia notwistanding, I am convinced the term derives from the middle ages. First, we can agree that “estate,” means “what sombody owns.” For instance, when a person dies that person’s “estate,” is probated, or inherited. So everybody agrees that’s the meaning of the word “estate.” So now to the meaning of the word “real.” Well, looking this up in an English dictionary is, IMHO, not the correct method of determining its meaning. We in california, will recognize the term “El Camino Real,” which translated from Spanish means “The King’s Highway.” Applying this intrepretation to “real,” we get, “the king’s property.” Now isn’t this strange that we would refer to land as “the king’s property?” Well, in 2011, yes it is. But in 811, it wasn’t. Back then, the only people who owned land were royalty. In fact people lived in a “kingdom.” A serf, or anyone other than royalty, never actually owned the land upon which the built their home. They had what is known as a “life estate.” this meant that for as long as you were alive, you got to live on the King’s property. When you died, the land reverted back to the king. Now you had no right to say who would “inherit” your land, because it wasn’t yours after you died, it was the king’s. So what you did was write a letter to the king expressing your “will,” to have your wife, son, or daughter, inherit another life estate on the land you previously owned until you died. This is the origin of the term “will.” The king wasn’t the only person who could own land. People with a “title,” could also own land. A duke, owned all the land in a duchy, a prince owned all the land in a piricipality, a baron owned all the land in a barony, and a count owned all the land in a county. The King, baron, duke prince, or count, charged all who lived on their land a “tax.” This tradition survives down to our own time, in that real estate taxes are not collected by the state, or federal government, but are colledted and assessed by the “county.” We also continue the tradition of referring to ownership, as “title,” as in "The husband and wife are both “on title.”

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**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\
**Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/2 "2011-07-14T12:49:05Z")

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Link to the [SDSAB report.](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1555/why-is-it-called-real-estate)

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**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\
**Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/3 "2011-07-14T15:06:11Z")

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In Britain we do not refer to “Real Estate Agents,” just “Estate Agents.” We do not like to be forced to acknowledge that they are real.

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**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\
**Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/4 "2011-07-14T15:53:05Z")

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> [@Steve\_Weston](#):
>
> Applying this intrepretation to “real,” we get, “the king’s property.” Now isn’t this strange that we would refer to land as “the king’s property?” Well, in 2011, yes it is. But in 811, it wasn’t. Back then, the only people who owned land were royalty. In fact people lived in a “kingdom.” A serf, or anyone other than royalty, never actually owned the land upon which the built their home. They had what is known as a “life estate.” this meant that for as long as you were alive, you got to live on the King’s property. When you died, the land reverted back to the king. Now you had no right to say who would “inherit” your land, because it wasn’t yours after you died, it was the king’s. So what you did was write a letter to the king expressing your “will,” to have your wife, son, or daughter, inherit another life estate on the land you previously owned until you died. This is the origin of the term “will.” The king wasn’t the only person who could own land. People with a “title,” could also own land. A duke, owned all the land in a duchy, a prince owned all the land in a piricipality, a baron owned all the land in a barony, and a count owned all the land in a county. The King, baron, duke prince, or count, charged all who lived on their land a “tax.” This tradition survives down to our own time, in that real estate taxes are not collected by the state, or federal government, but are colledted and assessed by the “county.” We also continue the tradition of referring to ownership, as “title,” as in "The husband and wife are both “on title.”

This story has all the hallmarks of an urban legend.

I find much more believable the etymology offered by [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_estate#Etymology):

> [@](#):
>
> In law, the word _real_ means relating to a thing (_res_/_rei_, thing, from [O.Fr](http://O.Fr). _reel_, from L.L. _realis_ “actual,” from Latin. _res_, “matter, thing”), as distinguished from a person.

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**Author:** ![ragerdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d07c76/32.png) [@ragerdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ragerdude)\
**Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/5 "2011-07-14T16:59:56Z")

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Translating “El Camino Real” as “the king’s property” is not at all justified. “Real” means royal, and is cognate to it, and that is the “king’s” part of the phrase. “Camino” is translated “highway.”

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**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\
**Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/6 "2011-07-14T17:44:06Z")

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Not to mention “real tennis”.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\
**Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/7 "2011-07-14T17:45:49Z")

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I always assumed it to be because “egg salad” was taken.

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**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\
**Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/8 "2011-07-14T17:48:28Z")

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> [@ragerdude](#):
>
> Translating “El Camino Real” as “the king’s property” is not at all justified.

That’s okay, no one did.  
Powers &8^]

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**Author:** ![Steve\_Weston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Steve\_Weston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Weston)\
**Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/9 "2011-07-14T23:57:23Z")

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> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> This story has all the hallmarks of an urban legend.
> 
> I find much more believable the etymology offered by [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_estate#Etymology):

I would completely agree with this intrepretation offered by Wikipedia, IF we used the term “real property,” and not “real estate.” “Property” would be in complete agreement with Wikipedia’s arguments. However, the use of the word “estate,” which Wikipedia itself defines as: “…It is the sum of a person’s assets - legal rights, interests and entitlements to property of any kind…” If the person owns their land, why put the modifier “real” in front of “estate.” It should then be called "land, " or “residential, property,” If we apply the definition above, the “rights, interests, and entitlements to porperty.” Therefore continueing with my argument the “rights, interests, and entitlements to porperty” are the king’s.

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**Author:** ![Steve\_Weston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Steve\_Weston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Weston)\
**Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/10 "2011-07-14T23:59:39Z")

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> [@ragerdude](#):
>
> Translating “El Camino Real” as “the king’s property” is not at all justified. “Real” means royal, and is cognate to it, and that is the “king’s” part of the phrase. “Camino” is translated “highway.”

So if I’m understanding you correctly “El Camino Real,” in English means “The Royal Highway.” Is this correct?

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**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\
**Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/11 "2011-07-15T00:55:21Z")

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> [@Steve\_Weston](#):
>
> I would completely agree with this intrepretation offered by Wikipedia, IF we used the term “real property,” and not “real estate.” “Property” would be in complete agreement with Wikipedia’s arguments. However, the use of the word “estate,” which Wikipedia itself defines as: “…It is the sum of a person’s assets - legal rights, interests and entitlements to property of any kind…” If the person owns their land, why put the modifier “real” in front of “estate.” It should then be called "land, " or “residential, property,” If we apply the definition above, the “rights, interests, and entitlements to porperty.” Therefore continueing with my argument the “rights, interests, and entitlements to porperty” are the king’s.

It is far too common for laypersons to pass around fantastical stories of etymology that have no basis in actual scholarship. My experience tells me that if you have a “good story” about the origin of a word, it’s almost always too good to be true. It’s the boring scholarship that presents in dry word chains that’s more credible.

And specifically –

1. Your distinction between “real property” and “real estate” doesn’t really make sense. It’s obvious that the two phrases are related. It’s quite unlikely that the “real” in “real property” came from “res” whereas the “real” in “real estate” came from “real.”

2. Legal terms in common law are commonly based on English, French, and Latin. “Real” is not English, French, or Latin. It’s Spanish.

3. Your understanding of mediaeval inheritance and ownership is garbled.

4. The idea that English etymology is not to be found in an English dictionary is, to put it mildly, odd. People who write dictionaries of English study the origins of English words, regardless of the origin. It’s not possible that English lexicographers haven’t considered such an obvious possibility as Spanish “real.”

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**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\
**Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/12 "2011-07-15T02:13:58Z")

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Furthermore, we have yet current examples of “res” (Latin “thing”) being used in law to mean “property,” such as the term “in rem,” which describes a claim made against property rather than against a person (in personam). In an action in rem, the defendant is a piece of property, commonly land.

“Res” shows up all the time in legal jargon. Res judicata – a thing (already) adjudicated.

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**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\
**Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/13 "2011-07-15T04:48:45Z")

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On a side note, the French term for “real estate” – at least under Quebec law – is _immobilier_, or “immovable” (property). (A real estate agent is an _agent immobilier_). This is related to the word “immeuble” which is a common word for “building.”

“Bien meuble” is the term for “movable property,” but much like “immeuble,” the words “mobilier” (mass noun) and “meuble” (count noun) are common words meaning “furniture.”

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**Author:** ![Steve\_Weston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Steve\_Weston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Weston)\
**Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/14 "2011-07-15T04:56:38Z")

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[quote=“Acsenray, post:11, topic:588967”]

It is far too common for laypersons to pass around fantastical stories of etymology that have no basis in actual scholarship. My experience tells me that if you have a “good story” about the origin of a word, it’s almost always too good to be true. It’s the boring scholarship that presents in dry word chains that’s more credible.

And specifically –

1. Your distinction between “real property” and “real estate” doesn’t really make sense. It’s obvious that the two phrases are related. It’s quite unlikely that the “real” in “real property” came from “res” whereas the “real” in “real estate” came from “real.”

Thank you for pointing out the poor construction of my reply. What I intended to point out was that the word “estate” is entirely different from the word “property.” I’m sorry I didn’t make that point more clearly. If we were to refer to something as “real property.” the explanation, as given by Wikipedia is that “real” refers to a “thing.” So what Wikipedia is saying is that when we say “real estate,” we’re saying “thing estate.” Interesting, but not convincing. Moreover, the point I failed to make clear was that the word “estate,” differs from the word"property." “Property” is a “thing.” “Estate,” is defined by Wikipedia as “…legal rights, interests and entitlements to property…” If we were to put the English word “real” in front of the above definition, we get: “real legal rights, interests and entitlements to property.” This just doesn’t make sense. However if we put the term “king’s,” or, as another blogger has pointed out, “royal,” would be more appropriate we get: “royal legal rights, interests and entitlements to property…”  
It is far too common for laypersons to pass around fantastical stories of etymology that have no basis in actual scholarship. My experience tells me that if you have a “good story” about the origin of a word, it’s almost always too good to be true. It’s the boring scholarship that presents in dry word chains that’s more credible.

1. Legal terms in common law are commonly based on English, French, and Latin. “Real” is not English, French, or Latin. It’s Spanish.

Now you’ve brought up a very interesting point about the Spanish origin of the word “real.” Spain was heavily influenced by the Catholic Church. As such, the church was a counter to the power of the king. Individual land ownership, that is, non-royal, land ownership was supported by the chuch, probably for the self-interest of the church. This tradition continues down to our present day, in that the individual home-ownership rate in Spain has historically been higher than that of ANY country, including the USA. So what about the Spanish word “real,” and how did this Spanish word creep into the American term “real estate.” It was through the Treaty of Guadalupe Hildalgo, wherein California, Arizona, and New Mexico were ceeded to the US. A famous clause in that treaty states “The rights of Mexican landowners shall be respected.” In other words, Spanish law, NOT American law would apply to landowners in these three states. As a result, in California, until 1906, a Married man could not sell his land unless his wife consented. The wife COULD actually sell the land they jointly owned WITHOUT the husband’s consent. Why, because this was Spanish law at the time the treaty was signed. Similarilly, in California until 1906, a woman could not be dis-inherited from her husband’s estate at his death, because that was Spanish law.

1. Your understanding of mediaeval inheritance and ownership is garbled.

Could you explain it to me, or could you direct me to a source that would enlighten me? All I’m going with is what I learned from my UCLA Histroy major wife, and in my own education. If I’m going to challenge “The Boss,” I’ll be needing some very strong arguments.

1. The idea that English etymology is not to be found in an English dictionary is, to put it mildly, odd. People who write dictionaries of English study the origins of English words, regardless of the origin. It’s not possible that English lexicographers haven’t considered such an obvious possibility as Spanish “real.”

I can’t seem to find a difinative etymology for the “real,” in “real estate.” Even Wikipedia is speculative. Can you direct me to another source?

Furthermore, we have yet current examples of “res” (Latin “thing”) being used in law to mean “property,” such as the term “in rem,” which describes a claim made against property rather than against a person (in personam). In an action in rem, the defendant is a piece of property, commonly land.

I am familiar with the term. When another attorney brought this up to me, I asked her, "Then why don’t we say “rem estate,” or “res estate?” This got her to thinking, and asking her fellow professors, who upon reflection, are now in a state of aporia regarding the issue.

“Res” shows up all the time in legal jargon. Res judicata – a thing (already) adjudicated.

Again, the meaning of the term “real estate,” following this line of reasoning, would be “thing estate.” “thing legal rights, interests and entitlements to property.” I’m not convinced. Can you convince me more?  
Acsenray  
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**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\
**Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/15 "2011-07-15T05:21:25Z")

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> [@Steve\_Weston](#):
>
> . So what about the Spanish word “real,” and how did this Spanish word creep into the American term “real estate.” It was through the Treaty of Guadalupe Hildalgo, wherein California, Arizona, and New Mexico were ceeded to the US. A famous clause in that treaty states “The rights of Mexican landowners shall be respected.” In other words, Spanish law, NOT American law would apply to landowners in these three states. As a result, in California, until 1906, a Married man could not sell his land unless his wife consented. The wife COULD actually sell the land they jointly owned WITHOUT the husband’s consent. Why, because this was Spanish law at the time the treaty was signed. Similarilly, in California until 1906, a woman could not be dis-inherited from her husband’s estate at his death, because that was Spanish law.

The problem with that is that you can find the term “real estate” in English as early as the 17th century, long before the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

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**Author:** ![Steve\_Weston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Steve\_Weston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Weston)\
**Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/16 "2011-07-15T05:46:53Z")

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> [@Captain\_Amazing](#):
>
> The problem with that is that you can find the term “real estate” in English as early as the 17th century, long before the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

There seems to be support for my position from Wikictionary:

[http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Real\_estate](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Real_estate)

Thanks for reading my post.

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**Author:** ![Steve\_Weston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Steve\_Weston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Weston)\
**Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/17 "2011-07-15T06:22:23Z")

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1. The idea that English etymology is not to be found in an English dictionary is, to put it mildly, odd. People who write dictionaries of English study the origins of English words, regardless of the origin. It’s not possible that English lexicographers haven’t considered such an obvious possibility as Spanish “real.”  
[/QUOTE]

Please look at:

[http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Real\_estate](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Real_estate)

It appears my theory has some support. But unfortunately, it’s seems almost as speculative as Wikipedia. But again, it does make more sense, than the “thing” thing.

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**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\
**Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/18 "2011-07-15T07:36:04Z")

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Right, but that’s Wiktionary. Anybody can put in whatever they want there. It’s not reliable.

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**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\
**Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/19 "2011-07-15T11:52:42Z")

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The _real_ in _real estate_ has nothing to do with Royal, and it doesn’t come from Spanish.

> [@OED](#):
>
> Forms: ME realle, ME riall, ME ryall, ME–15 reale, ME–16 reall, ME– real, 18 rael, 18– rale, 19– reel; Eng. regional18– rale, 18– reeal; U.S. regional17– rale, 18 raal, 18 rele, 18– rael, 18– rail, 18– reel, 19– r’al, 19– rill; Sc.pre-17 reale, pre-17 reall, pre-17 ryalle, pre-17 17– real, 18 rail, 18 rel, 18– rael, 18– rale, 19– raal. … (Show More)
> 
> Etymology: \< Anglo-Norman real and Middle French reel, real(French réel) (adjective) (in legal use) that concerns things and not people (1283), actual, concrete (early 14th cent. or earlier in Anglo-Norman), material, objective

> [@OED](#):
>
> _real estate_ – 1. Property consisting of land and the buildings on it, along with its natural resources such as crops, minerals, or water; immovable property of this nature (originally contrasted with personal estate n. at estate n. 11a); an interest vested in this; (also) an item of real property; (more generally) buildings or housing in general. Also: the business of real estate; the profession of buying, selling, or renting land, buildings, or housing. Cf. real property at real adj.2 7c.
> 
> [1605 R. Mason Reasons Academie 93 Estates for yeares, must haue a certaine beginning and ending. Inheritances haue commencements vppon time: and limited to the ende of time. So the first estates, determine in time: and the second being reall estates, onely with time: and not before the ending of time.]
> 
> a1642 R. Callis Reading of Statute of Sewers (1647) iv. 192 Our Freeman must also have in clear moveable substance to the value of a hundred pounds; this word (Substance) would have extended as well to ones real Estate as to his personal.

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**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\
**Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-called-real-estate/588967/20 "2011-07-15T16:21:12Z")

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Wiktionary (it doesn’t help your case to misspell your references) disagrees with Wikipedia on this. Wikipedia refutes it categorically.

> [@](#):
>
> Some people have claimed that the word real in this sense is descended (like French royal and Spanish real) from the Latin word for ‘king’. In the feudal system (which has left many traces in the common law) the king was the owner of all land, and everyone who occupied land paid him rent directly or indirectly (through lords who in turn paid the king), in cash, goods or services (including military service). Property tax, paid to the state, can be seen as a relic of that system, as is the term fee simple. However, this derivation of real is a misconception.

Wiktionary is not a source to use in a scholarly debate. Or any other.

I’m assuming samclem – a noted and cited expert, BTW – is using the third edition of the OED, which should be far better than other sources, including the printed editions of the OED.

The normally reliable [Online Etymology Dictionary](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=real+estate&searchmode=none) – which is free, unlike 3rd OED, and therefore the normal go-to online – seems somewhat behind current scholarship by comparison.

> [@](#):
>
> real (adj.)  
> mid-15c., “relating to things” (esp. property), from [O.Fr](http://O.Fr). reel, from L.L. realis “actual,” from L. res “matter, thing,” of unknown origin. Meaning “genuine” is recorded from 1550s; that of “actually existing” is attested from 1590s; sense of “unaffected, no-nonsense” is from 1847. …
> 
> Real estate is first recorded 1660s and retains the oldest English sense of the word.

I.e., the OED now has even older uses than it found before.

Lexicographers can and do often disagree but I can’t find any evidence anywhere that they do in this particular case. I can’t find your claim in any of my dictionaries. Can you give us any other dictionaries you actually used other than Wiktionary? Remember, the story you told looks preposterous from the start to anyone who has experience in these etymology hunts so you need more than just a casual cite for anyone to take it seriously as a contender.

Please also note that quoting someone is as simple as putting [noparse]

> [@](#):
>
> [/noparse] at the start of the words and ending them with [noparse]

[/noparse]. It makes response posts far more readable.

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