# why is it empowering that a woman have a sex toy but shameful for a man **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 22, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565 "2010-11-22T19:28:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/21 "2010-11-23T01:44:40Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > To elaborate on this, think about the word “empowerment” as being about choice. > > How does a woman traditionally exercise sexual choice? By being “choosy” about who she has sex with. Not having sex with anyone is the ultimate in being choosy. Thus, solo sex is seen as empowering because it is an expression of sexual choice. It’s no longer about “giving” sex to guys who may not satisfy you sexually (and all of this is very mixed up with the idea that women do not normally enjoy sex) but about “taking” that pleasure for yourself. > > How do men traditionally exercise sexual choice? By having a variety of potential partners to choose from. It’s assumed that a man will always prefer a human partner if they have access to one, and thus using a toy is seen as a sign that you are unable to attract a partner. Very interesting, I never thought of it in this way before. But I think you’ve nailed (heh heh heh) it. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/22 "2010-11-23T01:46:10Z")
Interesting that everyone assumes the “Fleshlight” and blowup dolls but nobody has mentioned dildos/buttplugs for men. Plenty of men use them, you know. I think the obvious reluctance to admit that (be shameful) is that men feel less manly admitting they put things in their butts. ---
**Author:** ![Runs\_With\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Runs\_With\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Runs_With_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/23 "2010-11-23T03:21:35Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > I assume ‘sex toy’ in the context of that question should be more precisely phrased ‘masturbation aid’. The general assumption would be that women masturbate out of choice, but men because they are not getting any (at least at the present moment). I masturbate because I have to. No one makes fun of me for breathing! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/24 "2010-11-23T03:23:27Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > Interesting that everyone assumes the “Fleshlight” and blowup dolls but nobody has mentioned dildos/buttplugs for men. Plenty of men use them, you know. I think the obvious reluctance to admit that (be shameful) is that men feel less manly admitting they put things in their butts. Well, I also think that far fewer men do so than there are women who use didoes. I know that when skimming this thread butt plugs and didoes for men simply never entered my mind. The penis is an erogenous zone for nearly all men; that’s the body part that naturally comes to mind when one thinks of masturbating with or without toys. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/25 "2010-11-23T03:24:02Z")
You’re not supposed to be breathing out of that hole. ---
**Author:** ![taffygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@taffygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taffygirl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/26 "2010-11-23T03:27:53Z")
I don’t understand this assumption that women have their pick of men. Are we assuming that men are always on the prowl but are only sometimes successful at getting laid, whereas women, at any given time, have multiple possibilities but choose to “empower” themselves? Would that it were so! ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/27 "2010-11-23T03:30:17Z")
Also, toys for females have a longstanding and (once) respected [medical provenance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria). (There are probably far too few people in the world to understand and appreciate it, but I’d like to see a SNL type skit about a beleaguered Victorian doctor who is called upon to do “pelvic massages” for repressed male patients, to aid them in achieving male hysterical paroxysm.) Also: > [@kanicbird](#): > > Something reasonably satisfying for a women is relatively inexpensive while for a man would require all the engineering expertise of Japan Can I make this my sig? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/28 "2010-11-23T03:31:22Z")
I wasn’t aware it was shameful. Learn something new every day. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/29 "2010-11-23T03:33:00Z")
Lot of good answers already but basically to sum it up crudely: for a man it’s an accomplishment to land it in a vagina so a sex toy represents failure. For a woman, the challenge is to keep the cock _away_, so a sex toy represents victory. ---
**Author:** ![Ura-Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Ura-Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ura-Maru)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/30 "2010-11-23T03:38:08Z")
You know those classy-porn websites that show nothing but women entertaining themselves, right? Have you ever wondered why there’s no male equivalent? No? You haven’t? Neither has anyone else. **Ever.** Chick-on-same-chick action is sexy, dude-on-same is not. (“But wait,” I hear some cool women and guys complaining, “I think it is sexy!” Perhaps in the abstract you do, but with, ah, accessories? You ever fantasize about coming home early and finding your boy on the computer, playing a one man game of quake with Claire Adams? Didn’t think so.) Thus, the artifacts of male self-love are contemptible, but the female equivalent are things of glory! Joking aside, I don’t think the toy’s themselves have much if anything to do with the attitude described. It’s what they’re used for. A guy hanging around with himself is at best wasting a little time in a harmless way, more likely performing some utilitarian maintenance, and often perceived as a loser who can’t get laid. So, by buying something to help him, he’s \*\*at best \*\*being self-indulgent. A woman is at best, reenacting that bit from Pleasantville, more likely exploring (inward!), and at worst . . . Ok, even at worst, that’s still awesome. So her toys are, well, awesome. Not so different from ‘a man’s supposed to conquer, a woman’s supposed to BE conquered. A man is showing he can’t dominate, a woman is placing herself above domination,’ But I think the dude=clown, chick=sexy is the core of it, not the power dynamics. Narrative contributes, too. There’s no male storyline where doing this is cool, unless you’re 15 (and even then it’s not cool, just expected) or there’s a woman with some body art in the room watching you. The female version has several positive possibilities. Your boy sucks in bed, your boy can’t keep up with your magnificent libido, you’re warming yourself up for the return of your boy, you haven’t yet found a worthy boy, your boy is across the room doing the same thing for your mutual entertainment, or, of course, you’ve been repressed by society and are now reclaiming your sexuality. On the other hand . . . ‘Empowerment’ via self-love? That’s taking this a little too seriously. The 50’s ended half a century ago. There’s something profoundly wrong with the world if this meme is still necessary. There are a lot of double standards relating to sex. Some benefit women, some men, most a subset of one or the other, depending on the situation. As these things go, smirk-free sex toy privileges is pretty minor. Best to let it slide. Particularly as one of the female perks is a greater leeway when complaining about double standards relating to sex . . . – The BEST sex toys are the homemade ones, of course, though the raw materials require considerable effort to acquire, and great skill and patience is required to complete the process. The results are well worth it, though. Of course, in my experience, women tend to end up with the best of these, too . . . ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/31 "2010-11-23T03:43:58Z")
> [@Ura-Maru](#): > > There are a lot of double standards relating to sex. Some benefit women, some men, most a subset of one or the other, depending on the situation. Makes me think of [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12912501&postcount=10) . . . If **Nava** were a dude, reaction to the story would be much different, I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![scootergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e99b99/32.png) [@scootergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scootergirl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/32 "2010-11-23T07:27:05Z")
Is it shameful for a man? I don’t think so, but that’s just my opinion. I think that many people are presuming that sex toys are used primarily by women when alone. I for one, use them WITH my guy and we both enjoy them together. Toys are fun to experiment with, whether man made or of the vegetable variety 🙂 – but in the end I prefer a nice hard dick in either opening any day. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/33 "2010-11-23T07:48:01Z")
> [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > I always get annoyed at these discussions about what people “suppose” about men and women. Who are the supposers? I think these things are masks for what people suppose about themselves, and they should stop worrying so much about what other people suppose, because they’ll never know. And I get annoyed at people who don’t understand the concept of social norms and try to turn that around as an insult about other people not knowing themselves. Okay, not really, but I don’t see the point of your admission. It really is not so difficult to find out what society in general thinks about certain topics. It is quite clear to most people in this thread what is being discussed, and if you don’t understand what that is, that’s ignorance on your part. Of course I’ve found myself with the bias mentioned–but I can easily look around and see that I am not alone, and can infer that I learned my bias from the culture. And then I can try to find out why the culture deems something to be true, as an effort to remove my bias, or just as a curiosity. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/34 "2010-11-23T07:56:37Z")
> [@Ura-Maru](#): > > A woman is at best, reenacting that bit from Pleasantville, more likely exploring (inward!), and at worst . . . Ok, even at worst, that’s still awesome. So her toys are, well, awesome.. I think you are forgetting that women exist, too, and actually comprise a significant portion of the population. Most women are not quite as ready to wax poetic about the extreme hotness of female masturbation. I think your analysis might reflect a little bit of you projecting. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/35 "2010-11-23T08:00:33Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Most women are not quite as ready to wax poetic about the extreme hotness of female masturbation. You’ve just been visiting the wrong web sites. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/36 "2010-11-23T08:04:05Z")
> [@taffygirl](#): > > I don’t understand this assumption that women have their pick of men. Are we assuming that men are always on the prowl but are only sometimes successful at getting laid, whereas women, at any given time, have multiple possibilities but choose to “empower” themselves? Would that it were so! Provided the woman in question is aged 18-40(ish) and isn’t completely barking mad, massively obese (or anorexic), laden with “baggage”/suffering from insurmountable personality problems, then the general assumption is, IME, correct. There are plenty of guys who would like to sleep with a female friend/acquaintance if she was amenable, but there are a LOT of “normal” (although the term is relative) guys who are absolutely, completely bereft of opportunities for intimacy- as in, they don’t _have_ any female friends or simply aren’t interesting to women. Conversely, I’ve known plenty of attractive, “sane” women who sit around bitching they can’t get a boyfriend/FWB but exclude any guy who doesn’t earn $100k a year, drive a European marque car, and have esoteric interests of an aesthetic or artistic leaning. But I’ve never known a handsome, “sane” guy to sit around complaining that he can’t get any because none of the women he meets have a big enough rack or are into the same things as him- they’ll sit around complaining that whilst they’re getting some, their current FWB isn’t into the same stuff as them or has expensive tastes or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/37 "2010-11-23T08:07:14Z")
> [@taffygirl](#): > > I don’t understand this assumption that women have their pick of men. Are we assuming that men are always on the prowl but are only sometimes successful at getting laid, whereas women, at any given time, have multiple possibilities but choose to “empower” themselves? Would that it were so! I agree. I think the thing that gets left out here is “with an attractive and desirable partner.” Both men and women are pretty capable of picking up some drunk horny person at a bar. But a man who would never even register the overweight gap-toothed middle aged bar mamma pouding shots in the corner as a possibility suddenly gets all worked up about it not being fair when a woman decides she would prefer not to sleep with the overweight gap-toothed middle aged bar fly pounding shots in the corner. The idea that women not want to sleep with someone they don’t find at least minimally attractive is somehow still surprising. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/38 "2010-11-23T08:17:21Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Provided the woman in question is aged 18-40(ish) and isn’t completely barking mad, massively obese (or anorexic), laden with “baggage”/suffering from insurmountable personality problems, then the general assumption is, IME, correct. Yes, she can get laid by _someone_. But just like you don’t want to get with bald women, we don’t want to get with bald men. Just like you don’t want to get with tubby women, we don’t want to get with tubby men. Just like you don’t want to get with foul-smelling women, we don’t want to get with foul smelling men. Women (and men) want fit, clean, attractive partners. Many, many, many of the “willing” men are not. Not even close. I think a lot of guys see their buddy, the average dude, and thinks he looks okay. They don’t notice that he’s got a receding hairline, has twenty pounds to lose, and smells like cheap whiskey. That same guy would never dream of going for a girl with the same faults. But somehow this get interpreted as “women can get sex whenever they want to” and “men can never get the sex they need.” I don’t think guys even notice how rigid their own standards can be, and are somehow shocked that women might also have standards, too. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/39 "2010-11-23T08:42:12Z")
I think it’s less about men thinking they’re better looking than they are and more about men thinking they’re more interesting than they are. Maybe it’s true that most women would prefer a good looking and in-shape partner. I’m sure it is. However, we live in a society where there are thousands of hot women giving it up for men who aren’t good looking or in shape - usually because the men in question are rock stars or rich and famous in some other way - and this encourages men who think that if only they were just interesting enough, just “cool” enough, they could land any woman in spite of their excess bodyweight and poor posture. ---
**Author:** ![Ura-Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Ura-Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ura-Maru)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565/40 "2010-11-23T09:06:51Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I think you are forgetting that women exist, too, and actually comprise a significant portion of the population. Most women are not quite as ready to wax poetic about the extreme hotness of female masturbation. I think your analysis might reflect a little bit of you projecting. I haven’t forgotten that women exist for longer than 15 minutes in a stretch for the last 20 years. And of course they get to vote too, but I don’t think they vote the same way that men do on this particular issue. Sometimes I drift off point while trying to be entertaining. What I was trying to say was the attitudes towards male and female masturbation, and by extension, male and female masturbation accessories are significantly different. Women having fun in that particular way is sexy to many, if not most of the people who are attracted to women. And for those not attracted, most interpretations of the activity are neutral-to-positive. So, the overall attitude skews towards ‘sexy/adventurous/fun.’ Most of the people attracted to men do NOT find said activity sexy (at least in it’s commonly practiced state) and for those not attracted, there’s really no positive interpretations beyond ‘doesn’t do any harm,’ and a lot of mildly negative and mocking ones. So, the overall attitude skews towards ‘funny/immature/loser’ Certainly there are still people who think the female version is terrible, and presumably there are those (somewhere) who think the male version is awesome. But I don’t think my generalized assumptions are inaccurate. That is, a woman doing it is considered sexy, at least most of the time, while a man doing it is considered silly, at least most of the time. Or maybe I’m more out of touch with the culture than I thought. – The overly-flowery stuff does allow me to amuse myself, at least. Appropriate for this thread . . . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-it-empowering-that-a-woman-have-a-sex-toy-but-shameful-for-a-man/561565.md?page=3)